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Old 06-16-2018, 04:40 PM   #31
Chris Rice
 
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As my dear old Dad used to say when I'd criticise the artwork on the cover of his Favourite Sci-Fi novel..."you could put a jobby on that cover and I'd still buy it."

I feel like that with these pieces of art; they're crap, but they won't stop me buying it. I'll be disappointed, but I'll still back the project.

The thing is, it's not about me and a few hundred old fans, its about trying to get thousands of new people to play this great game. And these covers won't do anything to help that.
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Old 06-16-2018, 05:09 PM   #32
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Against my better instincts, I feel compelled to say that some of the comments here display a stunning tone of disrespect and entitlement. To see this thread go from some constructive criticism to seemingly over-the-top vilification in less than 24 hours -- while the SJG crew is at Origins, no less -- is disheartening, to say the least.

Whether or not one likes the illustrations, whether or not one might have legitimate points, there are hardworking, professional people at the other end of these attacks. And, yes, at this point they really do read as attacks, at least to me.

I'm not trying to be the Forum Police. I'm obviously not as active as many of you here, though I was hoping to change that. I hold my own enthusiasm for this project just as high as any other fan, but I'm not going to join in with the torches and pitchforks.

At this point, I encourage everyone to consider how tone and respect might be just as important as words when trying to convey a convincing position. As for this thread, I'm out and will hope for the best results in both art and civility.
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Old 06-16-2018, 05:23 PM   #33
Chris Rice
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groknard View Post
Against my better instincts, I feel compelled to say that some of the comments here display a stunning tone of disrespect and entitlement. To see this thread go from some constructive criticism to seemingly over-the-top vilification in less than 24 hours -- while the SJG crew is at Origins, no less -- is disheartening, to say the least.

Whether or not one likes the illustrations, whether or not one might have legitimate points, there are hardworking, professional people at the other end of these attacks. And, yes, at this point they really do read as attacks, at least to me.

I'm not trying to be the Forum Police. I'm obviously not as active as many of you here, though I was hoping to change that. I hold my own enthusiasm for this project just as high as any other fan, but I'm not going to join in with the torches and pitchforks.

At this point, I encourage everyone to consider how tone and respect might be just as important as words when trying to convey a convincing position. As for this thread, I'm out and will hope for the best results in both art and civility.
I don't feel those of us who've criticised the art are being disrespectful, quite the contrary, we want the reboot to be a big success and as good as it can be. Like I said, I'll back the project whatever, but it's not just about me. I feel we'd be doing Steve and his team a disservice if we didn't point out the importance of good cover art to sell this and that we feel the drafts presented aren't giving a great game the shout out in needs. I'm sure that Steve will take the comments as constructive criticism; that's how they're meant after all.
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Old 06-16-2018, 05:42 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groknard View Post
Against my better instincts, I feel compelled to say that some of the comments here display a stunning tone of disrespect and entitlement. To see this thread go from some constructive criticism to seemingly over-the-top vilification in less than 24 hours -- while the SJG crew is at Origins, no less -- is disheartening, to say the least.

Whether or not one likes the illustrations, whether or not one might have legitimate points, there are hardworking, professional people at the other end of these attacks. And, yes, at this point they really do read as attacks, at least to me.

I'm not trying to be the Forum Police. I'm obviously not as active as many of you here, though I was hoping to change that. I hold my own enthusiasm for this project just as high as any other fan, but I'm not going to join in with the torches and pitchforks.

At this point, I encourage everyone to consider how tone and respect might be just as important as words when trying to convey a convincing position. As for this thread, I'm out and will hope for the best results in both art and civility.
With all the due respect for a professional work I find not exactly a masterpiece this "preliminary cover art".

If I'm entlited to give an opinion I find this drawing like a caricatural image of a "wannabe" legionar not at the quality level of the other cover art shown - for example - for "Wizard" that is, at the opposite, excellent.

Its main problem is that it fails to capture the look and the feel of the old classic TFT style. Is it from the same artist? Seems unimaginable.

Of course it's just an opinion fully respecting the value of the professional work and coming from someone (me) unable to hold a pencil in hand.
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Old 06-16-2018, 05:58 PM   #35
Kirk
 
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I've read through everything on this thread, and it seems a lot of us agree that this guy stuffed himself into a centurion's outfit, ate something disagreeable, and now has the tough choice to go through the entire process of removing all of his armor to get some relief or just soiling himself while he takes care of business, which is probably checking IDs at the border.

Maybe someone has mentioned this or knows the answer, but if Liz D can ramp up on the pieces for Melee, couldn't she be sweet talked into doing the covers?
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Old 06-16-2018, 06:04 PM   #36
Chris Rice
 
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To be fair to the artist, I've checked him out and he's done some amazing stuff; these covers aren't typical of his style at all. I don't think it's a matter of needing a different artist but perhaps a different brief from Steve. And that's what most of us are saying here; to my mind all of the comments I've have been constructive. Let the artist give us something amazing. It'll be worth it in the end and we can all have something to be proud of: artist, publisher and buyer.
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Old 06-16-2018, 06:10 PM   #37
Kirk
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Why don't we all pitch in and help out?

What about something like this, and everybody can just can add an item or two to flesh it out a bit...? ;)

Not FInal Art!!!

https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-pho...-image23768473
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Old 06-16-2018, 06:24 PM   #38
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I suppose if I have a criticism it's that it makes the games look too light.

The use of primary colors, soft lines, and a lower level of detail make me think of a smaller game. That may be what they want to convey, but the images that have been baked into my head for the past fort years are more exotic, urgent, and "adventurous".

The detailed black and white line drawings in the interior of the big three books (and especially Death Test) make me think of a big exciting world where heroes have adventures.

The new covers make me think "Ages 10+, 15 min per player, 2D6 included".

Whatever. I'm not a marketing person.
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Old 06-16-2018, 06:27 PM   #39
Jim Kane
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Kirk, that's funny; but the fact is, that picture is out there live on the internet with the name Melee and The Fantasy Trip on it, and people are seeing it and commenting. I for one am very uncomfortable with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomc View Post
The new covers make me think "Ages 10+, 15 min per player, 2D6 included".

Whatever. I'm not a marketing person.
Perhaps not TOMC, but your impression and sole opinion may represent the exact same impression and opinion of one thousand people, everyone a potential TFT customer who turns away - and TFT cannot afford that if there is to be a future beyond Kickstart.

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 06-16-2018 at 06:41 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 06-16-2018, 07:00 PM   #40
Kirk
 
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I have to say I agree. It's probably a card game where we each have sword cards of varying value, and some cards that provide armor and defensive moves. 1 to 7 players, 2 minutes per player play time. I'll get it for my grandniece! :)

Seriously, though, the art does make a difference. And players will all have to stare at it constantly while they play, look up rules, design characters, check the GM screen, etc. etc. The ones that buy it, that is, and aren't turned off before they give it a chance.

It's the same way I feel about the awful engineered suburban sprawl that has substituted for human living space over the past 70 years. It's so ugly I avoid it as much as possible. But it seems the majority of people either don't see it, or don't understand what is wrong with it, because they keep on buying and living in it. Maybe their electronics are a cheap diversion. How would someone convince them otherwise?

I think the art, both cover and internal, *can* make or break this game.

The trick is knowing what that art needs to be, and I wonder if any focus groups or other marketing tools have been used to try to get a read on what will draw interest and maintain it through the life of this game.

SJG is a successful game company, as far as I can tell. And Munchkin, for instance, seems to be one part of their success. What is appealing about that game? Card play, easy to learn, comic situations, comical art.

It's not my cup of tea, but maybe SJG is taking a clue from what has worked in the past...

Last edited by Kirk; 06-16-2018 at 07:05 PM.
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