Newbie question

[trashsmasher]

Thanks for all the book suggestions. I will definitely check some of those out!

P.S. LOL. You are right about the weretiger example. I guess that could mean anywhere from some anemic furry to Tony the Tiger. This is what I imagined:

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8759/44444fj.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9541/fffffffffd.jpg

I guess I read WAAAY too many comic books. lol. I may imagine things stonger than they really should be.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by trashsmasher

- So, if I'm reading all of you correctly, a 20 IS a possible ST score for a "real" human?

- Considering 24 is double the ST of 17, where would you guys benchmark some example supernatural characters/monsters? For example, could Hulk and Superman even be rated? I saw one thread where Superman's ST was like 10000.

20 is probably possible for a "real" human though he probably weighs 350 lbs and tests positive for steroids (for rules on steroids, see Gurps Bio-tech).

The simple rule for Gurps ST is that it increases as the square. This is usually called "quadratic". I.e. 20 is 2x 10 so ST 20 is 4x as strong as 10.

So, if the figures from the old DC Heroes game are used and Superman is 1,000,000x as strong as Batman then his ST is 1000 x as much as Batman's.

Even though Batman doesn't weigh 350 his ST is probably very close to 20 anyway (he's not realistic), maybe only a 19 and Captain America gets the 20.

This would make Supe's ST around 20,000 and lets him punch for around 2000 D6 or roughly through 100 inches of steel. This might be about right but some people have nosebleeds dealing with numbers like that and try and set the numbers lower and compensate with complicated "solutions". :(

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by trashsmasher

Thanks for all the book suggestions. I will definitely check some of those out!

P.S. LOL. You are right about the weretiger example. I guess that could mean anywhere from some anemic furry to Tony the Tiger. This is what I imagined:

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8759/44444fj.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9541/fffffffffd.jpg

I guess I read WAAAY too many comic books. lol. I may imagine things stonger than they really should be.

Setting DX super high is probably not the way such a monster would be built in Gurps.

You might give him a 16 which means that 98% of his attacks hit (more if he has an effective Brawling Skill) unless dodged or parried and his own Dodge might be 12 or more meaning he'd avoid 75% of attacks aimed at him but a really exceptional human could attain similar levels.

You couldn't build such a human on what Gurps considers a realistic character pt level though. You'd be on the lower end of the range for Supers.

[Edges]

I generally don't copy data directly from the book (because it's better to recommend to buy the book). But from Basic: Campaigns,

Gorilla ST 15
Lion ST 16
Tiger ST 17
Grizzly Bear ST 19
Polar Bear ST 20
Elephant ST 45

For non-magical/non-super powered creatures you can find a rough value for ST by finding the cube root of their weight (in lbs) and multiplying that by 2.

Example:
A 1,000 lb polar bear. The cube root of 1,000 is 10. 10x2=20.

While this won't tell you how to calculate ST for The Hulk or Dracula, it can give you an idea of what ST means to help decide how strong something should be.

Example:
Bram Stoker wrote that Dracula had the strength of 20 men. The average ST for a healthy young man is 10 which gives a BL 20. So Dracula should have a BL 400 which is ST 45, as strong as an elephant (20 men all pulling together could theoretically tug-o-war an elephant). This is an extreme example as Basic: Characters suggests a possible vampire template with an average of ST 16, the strength of 2 and a half men, as strong as a lion.

One way you could determine ST is to imagine how the character would handle a load. Can the super you have in mind carry a 1-ton car as easily as the average man can carry another man? If so, that's x-heavy encumbrance. 2,000 lbs is BLx10, so BL is 200, ST 32.

As for other attributes, I'd limit them to 20. Then set whatever gauge feels right to you as a GM. Average deer or great cat, DX 13. House cat, DX 14. Olympic gymnast, maybe DX 16. Spider-man DX 18+.

This was written by Kromm, the GURPS 4th ed. line editor (aka The GURPS guru):

Originally Posted by Kromm

ATTRIBUTES
I like p. B14 well enough, but I might add some more categories:
6 or less Crippling (literally -- you can't live a normal life)
7 Poor (you can life a normal life, with care, but never be an adventurer)
8-9 Below Average (low side of able-bodied, probably the lowest an adventurer should ever have)
10 Average (most scores for most people)
11-12 Above Average (high side of able-bodied, probably a good average for adventurers)
13-14 Exceptional (highest you'll likely meet on the street, above average for adventurers)
15-16 Amazing (highest you'll likely see or hear about, strongly defines an adventurer)
17-18 Legendary (historical "bests" and remarkable fictional heroes)
19-20 Mythic (astounding even among great heroes in fiction and folklore)
21 or more Superhuman (off-limits to humans, barely suitable for great heroes, okay for deities)

* Most people have ST, DX, IQ, HT, Will, and Per at 10; a Basic Speed of 5.00; and a Basic Move of 5.

* If an ordinary Joe is stronger, more agile, smarter, healthier, stronger-willed, or more perceptive than average, odds are good that he has an 11 instead of a 10. If his edge is so great that his friends talk about it, he might rate a 13. People in the middle are at 12.

* If an ordinary Joe reacts more quickly than average, he probably has Basic Speed 5.25. If he runs more quickly, he might rate Basic Move 6.

* I would seriously think about rating greater apparent competency using skills, not attributes. A really good hunter probably has all of Guns, Stealth, and Tracking at Attribute+1 or perhaps +2, and that sets him above his pals with only one or two of those skills at Attribute level. He almost certainly doesn't have DX 12 and Per 12!

* If an ordinary Joe is weaker, clumsier, duller, less healthy, weaker-willed, or less perceptive than average, he likely has a 9 instead of a 10. If his lack is so great that his friends talk about it behind his back, he might rate a 7. People in the middle are at 8. Likewise, if he reacts less quickly than average, he might have Basic Speed 4.75. If he can't keep up on the run, he probably has Basic Move 4.

* Don't mistake Incompetence at a skill for low attributes! Every workplace has some poor guy who -- let's face it -- sucks. My money is on him having Incompetence at a needed skill, not DX 7 or IQ 8.

Hope that helps.

[trashsmasher]

Great stuff guys! I will most certainly mull all this over, then go get my hands on some of the books mentioned! Thanks.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by trashsmasher

I just read the 4e Gurps Lite pdf, and so far it sounds great (I have only played AD&D and D20 in the past).

Congratulations!

Originally Posted by trashsmasher

Thanks for all the quick replies! You guys are a nice bunch. It's SO rare not to get flamed when asking for help.

I only set characters on fire, not the players.

Originally Posted by trashsmasher

I mean like, what would a reasonable DX for someone like a Weretiger be? (Assuming Weretigers ARE indeed very nimble in your world)

Originally Posted by trashsmasher

P.S. LOL. You are right about the weretiger example. I guess that could mean anywhere from some anemic furry to Tony the Tiger. This is what I imagined:

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8759/44444fj.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9541/fffffffffd.jpg

Those pictures don't really give us any context to benchmark DX... He could be tripping on his shoelaces for all we know in the first one. If I was building a weretiger template, I'd probably give them the same DX as a regular tiger (assuming that having the abilities of a regular tiger with the cunning of a human is the point of such a creature in the setting, which could be way off base... The point of a Weretiger in the oWoD setting is to be able to take down a typical werewolf, for example, and the point of a werewolf in that setting is to be able to take a typical vampire, and their vampires are all over the map more-or-less arbitrarily, so it's important to figure out what you're trying to do first), which GURPS benchmarks at 13 on Campaigns p 456.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

(And if you roll a 3, you also do maximum damage.)

Wait, what? Where does it say that?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Wait, what? Where does it say that?

GURPS Lite p27.

"As well, on an attack roll of 3, you do
not roll for damage – your blow automatically
does the most damage it could do."

I don't think that rule exists outside GURPS Lite.

[Jamaraq]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

GURPS Lite p27.

I don't think that rule exists outside GURPS Lite.

B326, right column, about halfway.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Jamaraq

B326, right column, about halfway.

B326 is "Combat Lite".

I think that rule is used in lieu of critical hit tables.