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Old 01-29-2010, 07:19 PM   #41
martinl
 
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Default Re: The Weapon Bond+Signature Gear Problem

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
The fancy scope was rather the point . . .
Thread is about WB+SG, not scope bond +SG. However you get the scope, you only need to WB the gun. (Unless there is a ruling that you can't benefit from a WB with a gun if you add a new scope to it.)

The elephant cannon is a better example.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:03 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Weapon Bond+Signature Gear Problem

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Originally Posted by martinl View Post
Unless there is a ruling that you can't benefit from a WB with a gun if you add a new scope to it.
There maybe should be, since WB with a firearm probably represents customizing it with the sights, grips, stocks, and slings that you like best. Changing the optics would logically wreck the feng shui.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:18 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Weapon Bond+Signature Gear Problem

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
There maybe should be, since WB with a firearm probably represents customizing it with the sights, grips, stocks, and slings that you like best. Changing the optics would logically wreck the feng shui.
Agreed. A weapon that's balanced just right for you probably is no longer such once to toss some weights (scopes, silencers, bayonets, laser sights, etc) on it. A case could be made for a weapon with very specific attachments (this scope, this silencer, etc) retaining the bonus from Weapon Bond regardless of how many attachments are there, so long as all the attachments present were predetermined. So, you could have Weapon Bond with the uber-rifle Kromm was talking about, and note that this silencer, this scope (which you bought as Sig Gear), and this patrol sling (SG), and this brass catcher (also SG) are also included. Thus, you have the WB in most cases, but if you, say, lose that silencer (or temporarily lose that brass catcher) and need to put on a stock model, your WB bonus is gone until you've taken that PoS off.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:29 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Weapon Bond+Signature Gear Problem

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Originally Posted by SuedodeuS View Post
Agreed. A weapon that's balanced just right for you probably is no longer such once to toss some weights (scopes, silencers, bayonets, laser sights, etc) on it. A case could be made for a weapon with very specific attachments (this scope, this silencer, etc) retaining the bonus from Weapon Bond regardless of how many attachments are there, so long as all the attachments present were predetermined. So, you could have Weapon Bond with the uber-rifle Kromm was talking about, and note that this silencer, this scope (which you bought as Sig Gear), and this patrol sling (SG), and this brass catcher (also SG) are also included. Thus, you have the WB in most cases, but if you, say, lose that silencer (or temporarily lose that brass catcher) and need to put on a stock model, your WB bonus is gone until you've taken that PoS off.
Exactly. You have weapon bond with this specific weapon because you have the exact pistol grip that fits your hand, the exact stock that support your cheek weld, the exact optics that work with your shooting style (painstaking adjusted to your exact eye relief), the exact style of broomstick foregrip you like positioned in exactly the right place and you've practiced with this exact weapon for hundreds of hours. Change any of that and you lose weapon bond. Even if the new equipment is technically better.
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:06 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Weapon Bond+Signature Gear Problem

In a low tech game, you could also require of the character taking SG + WB that they take Named Weapon. Yes, I see you sitting there thinking, but that only makes the weapon better. You are correct sir, but if they can't think of decent name for their weapon, and I wouldn't count "Spear" or "Sword" as a decent name, nor any already famous weapon name as acceptable either. As I said before, make the PC work for this kind of stuff. In addition, the Named Weapon feature also means that they'll be unlikely to ever use any other weapon, which sort of in my mind fits in perfectly with Signature Gear.

Signature Gear is the weapon that you'll be known for using throughout the ages, it shouldn't be swapped out for a better weapon. In addition, the whole Named Weapon thing, means CPs won't all go to the PC, some will go to his weapon, and can then only be used to improve it. It makes it sort of a punishment and a blessing all at once, I'd say. And again this means that the PC becomes more invested with the lore of that particular weapon, so that he's unlikely to give it up, and will want to try and get it back if it's ever stolen.

I mean, I've participated in a campaign that was more or less entirely centered upon the quest to get back a character's weapon. Granted this was in D&D. The weapon belonged to an NPC I created, the character who's name I use on here, Corlock. He was way too powerful to be a PC, but the GM allowed him an appearance in the game as an NPC, his sword, which was given to him by his father and was a family heirloom was stolen. This was a pretty damn powerful sword, named Dagnir en Mori'ksh, Bane of the Dark in elven. The recovery of that sword was the seed for my character, who was Corlock's adopted son to get into the adventure. So yeah, if you actually make the PCs come up with a story for their SG+WB+Named weapon, it's likely that they will actually try to recover it.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:08 PM   #46
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Default Re: The Weapon Bond+Signature Gear Problem

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Exactly. You have weapon bond with this specific weapon because you have the exact pistol grip that fits your hand, the exact stock that support your cheek weld, the exact optics that work with your shooting style (painstaking adjusted to your exact eye relief), the exact style of broomstick foregrip you like positioned in exactly the right place and you've practiced with this exact weapon for hundreds of hours. Change any of that and you lose weapon bond. Even if the new equipment is technically better.
Yes, that's exactly the rationale. That's why it's not limited to fantasy campaigns. It's not weird mystical juju; it's having all the nuances of physical design feel right. Human factors engineering.

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Old 01-29-2010, 10:20 PM   #47
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Default Re: The Weapon Bond+Signature Gear Problem

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post

There maybe should be, since WB with a firearm probably represents customizing it with the sights, grips, stocks, and slings that you like best. Changing the optics would logically wreck the feng shui.
And either we said that in Gun Fu or Hans plans to say it in Tactical Shooting. I didn't include all the frou-frou in my example for no reason at all. The objective was specifically to show a Weapon Bond-esque firearm with all kinds of tacticool crud hanging off it.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:26 PM   #48
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Default Re: The Weapon Bond+Signature Gear Problem

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
And what, you are bringing a replica Colt Army .45 to a Glock fight? You are saving points, that's true. :)

Explain why it has to be a replica? I said guns were cheap. Not that we are restricted to cheap guns.
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:59 AM   #49
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Default Re: The Weapon Bond+Signature Gear Problem

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Explain why it has to be a replica? I said guns were cheap. Not that we are restricted to cheap guns.
An actual historical artifact would cost more.
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Old 01-30-2010, 06:46 AM   #50
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Default Re: The Weapon Bond+Signature Gear Problem

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Originally Posted by Corlock Striker View Post
In a low tech game, you could also require of the character taking SG + WB that they take Named Weapon.
No. First off, weapon-with-a-name and Named Weapon are two completely different things. More importantly, however, having a weapon that is both your signature piece and is designed perfectly for you does not mean that the weapon would have a name. I can see no reason why it would need to. Hercules' bow didn't have a name. In fact, none of the equipment (that I can think of, with the possible exception of Zeus and Athena's Aegis) of the mythical Greeks tended to have individual names, except maybe to note who the original owner (or who the first owner to make it famous) was, despite mythic Greece being pretty much the best example of Signature Gear I can think of (as one's equipment was always closely associated with one's identity). If some sword smith made a good weapon specifically for you, I see no reason why it would suddenly have to have a name. Additionally, it seems far more likely that such a weapon would gain a name through use, rather than get one upon forging (Named Objects have the name engraved on them upon creation). Hell, I'll bet Orcrist and Glamdring weren't named until they were shown to be particularly, and Sting certainly was nameless until the spider incident. Note also that your concept of the weapon leeching CP is inaccurate - Named Objects gain CP at the same rate as the wielder. As for getting people to actually care about the weapons... It's Signature Gear and Weapon Bonded stuff. Do you really need to give it a name for the player to care about it? Note also that SG and WB arguably come packaged with something like a Sense of Duty toward the weapon - it's quite frankly out of character for someone to just leave behind their ancestral weapon because they found something shinier!

Lastly, of course, is the fact that Named Weapon isn't a Perk at all in many low-tech settings, particularly historical ones. After all, not every world has magic.
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