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Old 01-18-2010, 12:26 PM   #41
vsh
 
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Default Re: Fast-Draw Parry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
His final odds just improved from 50% to about 60%.
To 53,7%. Not much, and you can get enchanced parry for that point cost.
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Old 01-18-2010, 12:36 PM   #42
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Default Re: Fast-Draw Parry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
His final odds just improved from 50% to about 60%.
While I agree with the principle of your argument, these numbers are incorrect.

Critical success on fast draw = 20/216 = 4320/46656
success on fast draw + success on parry = (192/216) X (108/216) = 20736/46656
total odds of parrying success = (4320/46656) + (20736/46656) = 25056/46656 = 53.7037%
53.7037% is not "about 60%"

EDIT: Beaten by VSH
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Old 01-18-2010, 12:38 PM   #43
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Default Re: Fast-Draw Parry

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Originally Posted by vsh View Post
To 53,7%. Not much, and you can get enchanced parry for that point cost.
How do you figure those odds?

I think that the odds of regular defence are 13-3=10=50% and the odds of successful Fast-Draw Parry at those skill levels are 9.3% of not having to roll the Parry, 0.5% of not being allowed to and 50% chance in case the Fast-Draw roll falls between 7-16.

Doesn't that make for a final chance of, what, 54.4%? Not as much as 60%, true, but still significantly better than 50%. And if the Deceptive Attack was -8 (still within the capability of an equal foe), the automatic defence on a critical success would be even more important.

And yes, I'm aware that you can get Enhanced Parry for that price. I'm not saying that this is necessarily unbalanced, I'm saying that allowing people to defend better when their weapon is not Ready than they can do with it Ready fails my reality check and makes combat feel very strange.
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Old 01-18-2010, 12:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: Fast-Draw Parry

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
How do you figure those odds?
I've explained above.

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
And if the Deceptive Attack was -8 (still within the capability of an equal foe), the automatic defence on a critical success would be even more important.
-8 penalty on the attacker's roll would reduce defense to 9 (81/216)

Critical success on fast draw = 20/216 = 4320/46656
success on fast draw + success on parry = (192/216) X (81/216) = 15552/46656
total odds of parrying success = (4320/46656) + (15552/46656) = 19872/46656 = 42.59259%

42.59259% compared with 81/216 = 37.5%, but buying Enhanced Parry would bring that 37.5% up to 50%
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Old 01-18-2010, 01:02 PM   #45
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Default Re: Fast-Draw Parry

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
And yes, I'm aware that you can get Enhanced Parry for that price. I'm not saying that this is necessarily unbalanced, I'm saying that allowing people to defend better when their weapon is not Ready than they can do with it Ready fails my reality check and makes combat feel very strange.
May be something like "OMFG I REALLY DIDN'T EXPECT HIM TO PARRY"!
However, I like version with no autoparry better. And "OMFG" effect would be translated into GURPS as Parrying AOA.
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Old 01-18-2010, 01:05 PM   #46
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Default Re: Fast-Draw Parry

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
-8 penalty on the attacker's roll would reduce defense to 9 (81/216)
13-8= pathetic 5.
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Old 01-18-2010, 01:14 PM   #47
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Default Re: Fast-Draw Parry

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13-8= pathetic 5.
You've misread what I wrote, the -8 is on the attacker's roll (19-8=11) giving the defender a -4 penalty; 13-4=9.
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Old 01-18-2010, 01:19 PM   #48
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Default Re: Fast-Draw Parry

Playtesting, as always, is needed. Feel free to say that critical success on Fast-Draw does nothing, gives only +1, etc.
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Old 01-18-2010, 01:21 PM   #49
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Default Re: Fast-Draw Parry

I used the numbers from Characters (meaning there is some rounding error) and input things into a spreadsheet. High Fast-Draw does indeed make a noticeable increase in parry chance. Here's how it works out.

Parry 8: FD15 is a +2.2%, FD16+ is +4.3%
Parry 9: FD15 is +1.2%, FD16+ is +5.1%
Parry 10: FD16+ is +3.7% (FD 15 is, noteably, +0.0%)
Parry 11: FD16+ is +2.3%
Parry 12: FD16+ is +1.0%
Parry 13+: A Fast-Draw Parry is worse than a normal Parry, regardless of FD.

Thus, at a final Parry of 12 or lower (I didn't calculate for 7-, but I suspect there is a similar trend), and high Fast Draw, Fast-Draw Parry is slightly better than a normal Parry. As characters with high enough Fast Draw to qualify are likely to have Parry scores higher than 12, this indicates it's slightly more difficult to pull off a successful Deceptive Attack against a character with a sheathed sword than against one with one out and at the ready - provided said character has devoted significant time to perfecting the act of drawing into a parry. With the small increases present, as well as the time the character has spent in perfecting this sort of Parry, I think I'm alright with this - but I tend to err on the side of cinematic frequently. Simply capping the Technique at Parry-1 would be sufficient to insure that it is always worse to draw into a Parry. I'd probably lean toward capping it at Parry-2, but allow the +2 bonus for having a hand on the weapon to increase it up to Parry-1 (this way an expert is still better off with his hand on his weapon). An alternative would be to give an additional penalty that cannot be bought off if the attack is performed against the side opposite where the weapon is sheathed (the Weapon Side Hex and, arguably, the Front Hex immediately adjacent to it for most; all three front hexes if the weapon is sheathed on the back). -2 may be appropriate.
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Old 01-18-2010, 01:25 PM   #50
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Default Re: Fast-Draw Parry

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Originally Posted by SuedodeuS View Post
Parry 13+: A Fast-Draw Parry is worse than a normal Parry, regardless of FD.
How?

The chances of failed FD check are miniscule and the chances of a critical success are significant.
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