Fast-Draw Parry

tomservo · 01-17-2010, 03:57 PM

I have a question from a player of mine:

"If I do not have a ready weapon, and I have chosen a maneuver that allows any active defense, can I use fast-draw to draw my weapon as part of my Active Defense so that I may have a Parry defense against someone who has attacked me?"

If that's not too clear, here's a scenario:

Player Turn:
Choose Ready potion. Step back one hex. Potion in belt. Sword in scabbard.

Opponent Turn:
Attack Player readying potion. Step forward. Attack roll success.

Player Active Defense:
Roll Fast-Draw sword to allow Parry defense.

I won't give my opinion until I have some weigh-ins.

Dangerious P. Cats · 01-17-2010, 04:07 PM

I've always allowed players to make fast draw parries in my campaigns. Fast Draw (at least for melee weapons) represents techniques to draw and attack or parry in the same action, like the draw strikes in iaido. There are draw parries in Japanese swordmanship, so real world versions of the manuever exist.

Incard · 01-17-2010, 04:07 PM

While a Fast-Draw is a "free action," that does not mean it can be done at any time. It must be done on the player's own turn. Hence, as far as I can tell, it is RAW illegal to Fast Draw as part of an Active Defense.

Kelly Pedersen · 01-17-2010, 04:54 PM

I'd allow it, but at a penalty to the Fast-Draw. -4 sounds right, although I haven't exactly checked that against anything besides my gut.

Although... the other interesting thing you could do would be to make this a parry based on your Fast-Draw. I'd probably penalize that, though, too: -2 to parry score sounds right.

Jasonft · 01-17-2010, 05:13 PM

Draw and parry in one motion is not only realistic, but is in fact taught in certain schools/ styles from Japan.

In GURPS terms you might be limited to the lesser of either your Quick Draw or your Sword skill in the parry attempt. A combat technique would certainly be possible.

If I was GMing it I would insist on the hand that will draw the weapon being empty - it sounds like both people in the fight example had potions readied. Did they declare which hand the potions were in?

malloyd · 01-17-2010, 05:19 PM

I'd certainly allow it in a cinematic game. It's an analogous situation to the gunfight rules for outdrawing somebody with a ready weapon. Since all you are doing is readying, not actually *shooting* first, I'd probably not call for a quick constest and just call it roll at Fast Draw -10. If you succeed you now have a ready weapon, you can do anything with it a ready weapon allows, including try to parry. If you blow it, you've decided your maneuver for next turn early, you picked Ready.

I'd guess the realistic versions are an example of Wait. You are ready to pull your sword but haven't yet, interrupt the other guy's turn when he attacks and resolve your turn normally - roll your Fast Draw, and then take All Out Defend if all you are doing is parrying.

Note in your example I think Player could have taken Step and Ready potion and then tried Fast Draw at the end of his turn, but that might have changed Opponent's choice of action.

Philomath · 01-17-2010, 05:54 PM

I'd allow it on the condition that he aborts the Ready potion and has to spend his next turn on Ready weapon if the Fast-Draw fails. That's assuming the hand readying the potion is different from the hand readying the weapon. If they are the same hand, he just doesn't have time (although that might just mean hefty penalties to the Fast-Draw and to the Parry).

Jabani · 01-17-2010, 06:07 PM

As far as RAW goes, Incard has the right of it: it is not allowed (pretty sure it's come up before). That said, it's nifty and fun and I'd allow it in many games, subject to some of the stipulations others have suggested.

Verjigorm · 01-17-2010, 06:18 PM

Fast draw parrys are not actually parries, but are instead wait actions. Or atleast that's the cleanest way of doing it.

Or you could go for

Fast Draw Parry
Hard
Default: Broadsword Parry -3
Cannot exceed Broadsword Parry
When attacked you may draw your sword and parry the enemy attack. Roll against Fastdraw -6 to draw the sword, failure here indicates that you do not ready the weapon in time and cannot parry: your defense fails and your next turn is spend readying the sword. If your fast draw succeeds, you may parry your opponent at -3 to your parry(or -6 to weapon skill) and the weapon is readied. This technique also counteracts the penalty to fast draw, for every point invest.

So for 4 points, you can Fastdraw Parry at skill, with a -3 to the Fast Draw roll. I think it's still a bit much, and would personally not allow it, or atleast limit it to cinematic powered characters like weapon masters.

Jasonft · 01-17-2010, 08:40 PM

I still think it is realistic, if difficult. Iaido (a Japanese sword art) specifically teaches drawing and striking in one motion - something that is clearly a Quick Draw and an Attack in the same round. How would Parrying be any different?

Having it be a held action just doesn't feel right to me somehow. From what I have heard from a practitioner I know it sounds more like a technique in GURPS terms. Or maybe just a really high Quick Draw (sword).

01-17-2010, 03:57 PM	#1
tomservo Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sunny California	Fast-Draw Parry I have a question from a player of mine: "If I do not have a ready weapon, and I have chosen a maneuver that allows any active defense, can I use fast-draw to draw my weapon as part of my Active Defense so that I may have a Parry defense against someone who has attacked me?" If that's not too clear, here's a scenario: Player Turn: Choose Ready potion. Step back one hex. Potion in belt. Sword in scabbard. Opponent Turn: Attack Player readying potion. Step forward. Attack roll success. Player Active Defense: Roll Fast-Draw sword to allow Parry defense. I won't give my opinion until I have some weigh-ins. __________________ Thanx!

01-17-2010, 04:07 PM	#2
Dangerious P. Cats Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: Fast-Draw Parry I've always allowed players to make fast draw parries in my campaigns. Fast Draw (at least for melee weapons) represents techniques to draw and attack or parry in the same action, like the draw strikes in iaido. There are draw parries in Japanese swordmanship, so real world versions of the manuever exist. __________________ There is no "i" in team, but there is in Dangerious!

01-17-2010, 04:07 PM	#3
Incard Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Woburn, MA	Re: Fast-Draw Parry While a Fast-Draw is a "free action," that does not mean it can be done at any time. It must be done on the player's own turn. Hence, as far as I can tell, it is RAW illegal to Fast Draw as part of an Active Defense. __________________ "It is mercy, compassion and forgiveness I lack, not rationality" -Beatrix Kiddo

01-17-2010, 04:54 PM	#4
Kelly Pedersen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada	Re: Fast-Draw Parry I'd allow it, but at a penalty to the Fast-Draw. -4 sounds right, although I haven't exactly checked that against anything besides my gut. Although... the other interesting thing you could do would be to make this a parry based on your Fast-Draw. I'd probably penalize that, though, too: -2 to parry score sounds right.

01-17-2010, 05:13 PM	#5
Jasonft Join Date: Aug 2008	Re: Fast-Draw Parry Draw and parry in one motion is not only realistic, but is in fact taught in certain schools/ styles from Japan. In GURPS terms you might be limited to the lesser of either your Quick Draw or your Sword skill in the parry attempt. A combat technique would certainly be possible. If I was GMing it I would insist on the hand that will draw the weapon being empty - it sounds like both people in the fight example had potions readied. Did they declare which hand the potions were in?

01-17-2010, 05:19 PM	#6
malloyd Join Date: Jun 2006	Re: Fast-Draw Parry I'd certainly allow it in a cinematic game. It's an analogous situation to the gunfight rules for outdrawing somebody with a ready weapon. Since all you are doing is readying, not actually shooting first, I'd probably not call for a quick constest and just call it roll at Fast Draw -10. If you succeed you now have a ready weapon, you can do anything with it a ready weapon allows, including try to parry. If you blow it, you've decided your maneuver for next turn early, you picked Ready. I'd guess the realistic versions are an example of Wait. You are ready to pull your sword but haven't yet, interrupt the other guy's turn when he attacks and resolve your turn normally - roll your Fast Draw, and then take All Out Defend if all you are doing is parrying. Note in your example I think Player could have taken Step and Ready potion and then tried Fast Draw at the end of his turn, but that might have changed Opponent's choice of action. __________________ -- MA Lloyd

01-17-2010, 06:07 PM	#8
Jabani Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Anywhere but home	Re: Fast-Draw Parry As far as RAW goes, Incard has the right of it: it is not allowed (pretty sure it's come up before). That said, it's nifty and fun and I'd allow it in many games, subject to some of the stipulations others have suggested.

01-17-2010, 06:18 PM	#9
Verjigorm Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, North Caroline, United States of America, Earth?	Re: Fast-Draw Parry Fast draw parrys are not actually parries, but are instead wait actions. Or atleast that's the cleanest way of doing it. Or you could go for Fast Draw Parry Hard Default: Broadsword Parry -3 Cannot exceed Broadsword Parry When attacked you may draw your sword and parry the enemy attack. Roll against Fastdraw -6 to draw the sword, failure here indicates that you do not ready the weapon in time and cannot parry: your defense fails and your next turn is spend readying the sword. If your fast draw succeeds, you may parry your opponent at -3 to your parry(or -6 to weapon skill) and the weapon is readied. This technique also counteracts the penalty to fast draw, for every point invest. So for 4 points, you can Fastdraw Parry at skill, with a -3 to the Fast Draw roll. I think it's still a bit much, and would personally not allow it, or atleast limit it to cinematic powered characters like weapon masters. __________________ Hydration is key

01-17-2010, 08:40 PM	#10
Jasonft Join Date: Aug 2008	Re: Fast-Draw Parry I still think it is realistic, if difficult. Iaido (a Japanese sword art) specifically teaches drawing and striking in one motion - something that is clearly a Quick Draw and an Attack in the same round. How would Parrying be any different? Having it be a held action just doesn't feel right to me somehow. From what I have heard from a practitioner I know it sounds more like a technique in GURPS terms. Or maybe just a really high Quick Draw (sword).