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Old 05-12-2012, 09:43 PM   #21
samd6
 
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Default Re: The Kingdom of Froggwich (setting)

It strikes me that the frogwitches powers would only work on male frogs.
So what happens when a male descendant of a frogwitch kisses a female frog?(assuming it has the funk magicalness)
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:35 AM   #22
Hans Rancke-Madsen
 
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Default Re: The Kingdom of Froggwich (setting)

What I find a bit unbelievable (in the mystical sense) is all those royal princesses. Royalty is a volatile attribute and tends to concentrate in a few individuals. There's usually enough of it to include those of one degree of kinship (if that's the term I want; I mean siblings and children of a king), but it's not unknown for younger princes and princesses to become mere nobles when they wed, and two degrees kinship can often be enough to dilute royalty below the prince/princess threshold. There's always remains a tiny sliver, so that if all the current possessors die in one fell swoop, it can flow along lines of descent and fill someone who was not previously royal enough, but it would only ever be strong enough to register on a royalty-meter in a handful of people at a time.


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Old 05-24-2012, 03:11 PM   #23
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What I find a bit unbelievable (in the mystical sense) is all those royal princesses.
Hans
Just think like a Celt. You can be the king of one side of a medium sized hill (and not the good side either) if your civilization is fractious enough.
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:15 PM   #24
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Just think like a Celt. You can be the king of one side of a medium sized hill (and not the good side either) if your civilization is fractious enough.
That's not, IMO, true royalty. To quote a favorite film of mine: If everybody is special -- nobody is.


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Old 05-24-2012, 10:47 PM   #25
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That's not, IMO, true royalty. To quote a favorite film of mine: If everybody is special -- nobody is.
You are far from the unusual saying that Celtic petty-kings weren't really kings. Didn't stop the Celts from believing it though. ... I still don't quite get the objection. It seems to me you are saying that you wouldn't be able to take some fictional magical fluff seriously because it used a cultural viewpoint about royalty that wasn't the same as your own modern one, and that can't be it.

PS: Syndrome was the villain.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:40 AM   #26
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:23 AM   #27
Hans Rancke-Madsen
 
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Originally Posted by martinl View Post
You are far from the unusual saying that Celtic petty-kings weren't really kings. Didn't stop the Celts from believing it though. ... I still don't quite get the objection. It seems to me you are saying that you wouldn't be able to take some fictional magical fluff seriously because it used a cultural viewpoint about royalty that wasn't the same as your own modern one, and that can't be it.
No, my problem is that if royalty doesn't dilute, everyone in the world (even if it is a fantasy world) would be royalty. In other words, that the magical world of the Kingdom of Froggwitch is (IMO, of course) broken, illogical, self-contradictory. I'm merely illustrating how I feel it ought to work by assuming that magical royalness behaves just like Real World royalness (said behavior being, BTW, not a modern but a thoroughly old-fashioned way of looking at it).

EDIT: To elaborate: In the real world, being royal is entirely subjective. You're royal if people accept you as royal and treat you accordingly[*]. In a magical world where being royal has a specifc magical effect, there's no opinion involved. Being royal is a stone cold sober insdisputable fact.
[*] Which is why someone who is king for owning half a hill isn't really royal even if he insist he is, because even if his neighbors play along with the fiction, they'll treat him like the farmer he is. But that's by the way.
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PS: Syndrome was the villain.
I still think he was absolutely right. His villainy lay in trying to bring about a situation where everybody, and thus none, was special. (Well, that and the means he employed to achieve his goal, of course ;-) ).


Hans

Last edited by Hans Rancke-Madsen; 05-25-2012 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:02 AM   #28
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No, my problem is that if royalty doesn't dilute, everyone in the world (even if it is a fantasy world) would be royalty.
How depressingly democratic.

Quote:
In other words, that the magical world of the Kingdom of Froggwitch is (IMO, of course) broken, illogical, self-contradictory.
Really? Because the magic cues on ancestry/descent rather than some arbitrary social construct? (OP:"the ritual the Archdruid performed forged a bond between the Queen’s line and the enchanted frogs".) I think this is, at best, a "Hurting Wrong Fun" argument.

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...In a magical world where being royal has a specifc magical effect, there's no opinion involved. Being royal is a stone cold sober insdisputable fact.
Wow. There are a lot of historical disputes about this particular fact...

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I still think he was absolutely right. His villainy lay in trying to bring about a situation where everybody, and thus none, was special. (Well, that and the means he employed to achieve his goal, of course ;-) ).
Huh. I'd call "putting everyone on equal footing with the supers" a social good, but then I have an instinctive distrust of aristocrats.
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:24 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen
No, my problem is that if royalty doesn't dilute, everyone in the world (even if it is a fantasy world) would be royalty.
How depressingly democratic.
If you're trying to make a point, I'm afraid you're going to have to spell it out. because I don't get it.

Quote:
Really? Because the magic cues on ancestry/descent rather than some arbitrary social construct?
I'm sorry, I was under the impression that I had seen the term¨'princess' and even 'true princess' mentioned.

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(OP:"the ritual the Archdruid performed forged a bond between the Queen’s line and the enchanted frogs".) I think this is, at best, a "Hurting Wrong Fun" argument.
I'm not sure of what definition of the term 'Hurting Wrong Fun' you're using, but I don't see how it can be. After all, I didn't say you shouldn't have all the fun you wanted. I said that I found the concept of every descendant of the Queen qualifying for princesshood juxtapositioned with the classic fairytale motif of only true princesses being able to end spells to be unbelievable.

According to your story, there's not a single true princess any closer to Froggwitch than Prince Anura's foriegn fiancée. What, there are no female descendants of any of the previous kings still living? Every single branch of the royal line has been pruned of every female descendant?

See, I would have thought that there were plenty of younger children of younger children of younger chlidren of younger princes and princesses around, but that they didn't count as true princesses.


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Quote:
...In a magical world where being royal has a specifc magical effect, there's no opinion involved. Being royal is a stone cold sober insdisputable fact.
Wow. There are a lot of historical disputes about this particular fact...
You actually know of any historical examples where being royal had a specific magical effect?!? Tell me more.


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