[DF/Ars Magica] The power to Excommunicate

[tfaal]

How about we consider this as two separate powers; one social, and one magical. The ability to excommunicate someone from the church is an element of Religious Rank, but it just so happens that, as a part of the church's standard procedures, there's a spell that's cast in the process of excommunication that strips the victim of his divinely granted powers. *That's* the part you stat up. It would probably be some form of Neutralize, and would be limited, as most divine powers are, by the potential to anger your god if you misuse it.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Anthony

No it isn't. Fundamentally, it's the power to kick someone out of an organization that normally provides status and temporal power. As such, it's a social ability. There could be a sealing spell of some sort, but it's not needed for any powers with a Holy power source unless you don't have the agreement of the god.

Are you at all familiar with GURPS Dungeon Fantasy?

b-dog is specifically referring to a Disadvantage that appears in DF1, Social Stigma (Excommunicated), which has clear supernatural effects. Anyone trying to use Cleric magic on someone with the disad is at a penalty.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by malloyd

If it's a purely social ability, with no supernatural effects, then you don't pay anything extra for it over and above your Religious Rank. Being able to demote or fire your inferiors, possibly with the agreement of your superiors, possibly on your own decisions, is a pretty central feature of Rank in that organization, and that's all this is as a social ability.

IIRC, it required more rank in the Catholic hierarchy to excommunicate a high-ranking noble, or even excommunicate an entire country.

For social excommunication, it might make sense that the clergyperson doing the excommunucation must have more levels of Religious Rank than the target has levels of Status (and for multiple slightly lower Rank clergypeople to be allowed to act together to ecommunicate someone of slightly higher Status).

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Are you at all familiar with GURPS Dungeon Fantasy?

b-dog is specifically referring to a Disadvantage that appears in DF1, Social Stigma (Excommunicated), which has clear supernatural effects. Anyone trying to use Cleric magic on someone with the disad is at a penalty.

Yeah, I was curious how much it would cost to have a cleric who can give another person Social Stigma (Excommunicated).

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by b-dog

Yeah, I was curious how much it would cost to have a cleric who can give another person Social Stigma (Excommunicated).

For that, I would say the cleric needs to pray for a Divine Intervention. IE, they need to talk directly to their deity (or at least their deities holy representatives Up There) to do it. Planar contact/transport abilities that also let you contact them directly would also substitute.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

b-dog is specifically referring to a Disadvantage that appears in DF1, Social Stigma (Excommunicated), which has clear supernatural effects. Anyone trying to use Cleric magic on someone with the disad is at a penalty.

It's still a social stigma -- it's not actually a penalty to be healed, it's a penalty on divine casters that they are at -3 to heal excommunicates. Priests of a god which doesn't respect the religion that excommunicated the character won't have a penalty, and might get a bonus.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's still a social stigma -- it's not actually a penalty to be healed, it's a penalty on divine casters that they are at -3 to heal excommunicates. Priests of a god which doesn't respect the religion that excommunicated the character won't have a penalty, and might get a bonus.

By the RAW of DF1, the -3 penalty applies to all Holy Warriors and Priests. I don't remember what DFx: Clerics has to say about the matter, but I'd assume it is silent on the issue.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Affliction 1 (HT; Cosmic, Irresistible Attack, +300%; Disadvantage, Social Stigma (Excommunicated), +10%; Extended Duration, Permanent, Until Jeebus is satisfied, +150%; PM, -10%) [55/level]

Not that you'd need more than one level of it with the Irresistible Attack enhancement. For a learned prayer, you'd need Fickle, -20%, since it's really up to your deity's whim. This shaves off 2 points from the base, but as a learned prayer, it's 11 points either way.

Not this again . . .

Please, leave C:IA out of HT rolls.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Not this again . . .

Please, leave C:IA out of HT rolls.

That just makes it so it ignores DR, which is perfectly acceptable on an Affliction. You still need to roll against HT, which is a little odd for this power, though. Should probably be switched to a roll against IQ, or 10+Reputation Modifiers or something.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Langy

That just makes it so it ignores DR, which is perfectly acceptable on an Affliction. You still need to roll against HT, which is a little odd for this power, though. Should probably be switched to a roll against IQ, or 10+Reputation Modifiers or something.

Writing 'Not that you'd need more than one level of it with the Irresistible Attack enhancement' is kinda an indicator that's not what was meant, though.