Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech] - Page 6

AlexanderHowl · 08-08-2020, 08:29 PM

Pretty much my opinion as well. That is why I was asking what would change if you actually gave the stormtroopers decent armor. After all, an actually effective Empire would likely have its supposedly elite force equipped with superior armor.

Fred Brackin · 08-08-2020, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Pretty much my opinion as well. That is why I was asking what would change if you actually gave the stormtroopers decent armor. After all, an actually effective Empire would likely have its supposedly elite force equipped with superior armor.

My answer is that you see any Rebels equipped with effective anti-armor weapons. Being able to defeat an Empire's soldiers is pretty much a sine qua non for any Rebellion.

Say, it isn't that bad! · 08-08-2020, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Pretty much my opinion as well. That is why I was asking what would change if you actually gave the stormtroopers decent armor. After all, an actually effective Empire would likely have its supposedly elite force equipped with superior armor.

I like that idea more. After all, "We beat goons in cheap armour" makes the whole original series seem cheap.

And honestly, I'm not a fan of the Ewok segment of said original series.

DanHoward · 08-09-2020, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Just out of curiousity, what happens if you give Star Wars Stormtroopers TL 11 Combat Hardsuits with TL11 Combat Infantry Helmets? Other than extremely dead teddy bears in the third movie?

Darth Vader would have captured Leia before she could smuggle the DS plans in R2D2. The trilogy would have been over in the first five minutes.

DangerousThing · 08-09-2020, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad!

And honestly, I'm not a fan of the Ewok segment of said original series.

When I was watching that I was thinking that the average Ewok intelligence is much higher than human. And that when the war ended, the Ewoks would take over all of space. Our cute teddy bear overlords. :)

Fred Brackin · 08-09-2020, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Darth Vader would have captured Leia before she could smuggle the DS plans in R2D2. The trilogy would have been over in the first five minutes.

I don"t see this happening. The Stormtroopers taking the Blockade Runner are neither taking horrible casualties nor fighting in a terribly conservative manner to avoid such casualties. Stormtroopers are generally quite aggressive. I guess they don't care if they live or die either.

I suppose teaching them better marksmanship and tactics might speed things up a little but better armor isn't one of their _common_ problems. Their main function is probably terrorizing civilians.

Plane · 08-09-2020, 09:24 PM

I wonder if perhaps Leia's latent force abilities could somehow subconscioiusly cloud judgment of troopers to make them fight carelessly?

Rupert · 08-09-2020, 09:31 PM

I held, from the time we first saw the clone army, that the original storm troopers (the clones) were quite good, and that over time having to replace them via normal recruitment methods meant that the standards dropped.

They didn't have to, but as they moved from being a battlefield army to an army of occupation, and thus needed to recruit vast numbers for what clearly because a fairly unpopular job, the quality of recruit they had to accept dropped and the sort of person willing to sign up became more someone who liked power and the ability to bully people rather than someone who wanted to defend their home, family, and way of life.

Thus the storm troopers went from an army born and bred to fight wars to one recruited from would-be thugs to bully the civilian population. For that you don't need the best armour, or great tactics and marksmanship either.

Now, this was head-canon and some of it matches what became actual canon, but not all.

The storm troopers took relatively light losses in the boarding action at the beginning of ANH, considering it was an opposed boarding via a single point of entry, and if many of their losses were only injured we could assume that the armour stops flash and blast effects fairly well, but like Vietnam-era flak jackets was never intended to stop gunfire.

Of course once they'd established control of their point of entry it was a fairly easy fight for them (relatively speaking), because the defenders were ship crew with no real armour at all and probably even less training - they were pilots and techs, not assault troopers.

Rupert · 08-09-2020, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plane

I wonder if perhaps Leia's latent force abilities could somehow subconscioiusly cloud judgment of troopers to make them fight carelessly?

You need to be aggressive when forcing a tight point like they were in the boarding action. Assuming the lack of time to pump gas in (and they probably didn't have access to the right air lines, etc. anyway so they'd just have it blown back in their faces) popping smoke and assaulting was a decent tactic. Rough on the first guys in, of course.

pawsplay · 08-10-2020, 09:15 AM

Stormtrooper armor is generally considered good equipment, but it is not designed to maximize protection. That is a recurrent theme, from Stormtrooper armor to TIE fighters, skimping on defenses to save on costs and relying on a doctrine of total offense, troop loyalty, and massive numbers to win.
The original Stomtroopers were of course clone troopers. The Emperor was leery of a military coup, and hence the Stormtrooper legions were placed under his direct command rather than the Imperial Army or Navy. That is why Vader marches around with Stormtroopers doing whatever he wants, but he is not in command of a large ship or outpost. According to (older, possibly non-canon) lore, the newest stormtroopers were recruited primarily from Imperial loyalty organizations and CoreSec, with veteran Imperial Army officers with established loyalty being recruited directly to serve as officers.
So anyway, the protective value of the armor is going to be sufficient, but not excellent, and probably based on a low cost, low tech solution. It's not as good, for instance, as the armor routinely worn by mercenaries and bounty hunters. But it stops enough glancing shots and minimizes casualties enough to be worthwhile, and protects from shrapnel. In canon, its main value is basic vacuum protection, temperature regulation, and close and long range scanners built into an advanced HUD (hence Luke not being able to see because he has no idea what he's doing and the actual goggles are not really well-spaced for vision). In my view, its best modeled as TL 9 armor with TL 11 upgrades, loaded up with TL 10-11 equipment. Its also supposedly stun-resistant (probably at +2 HT against stun and shock weapons).

08-08-2020, 08:29 PM	#51
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech] Pretty much my opinion as well. That is why I was asking what would change if you actually gave the stormtroopers decent armor. After all, an actually effective Empire would likely have its supposedly elite force equipped with superior armor.

08-09-2020, 09:24 PM	#57
Plane Join Date: Aug 2018	Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech] I wonder if perhaps Leia's latent force abilities could somehow subconscioiusly cloud judgment of troopers to make them fight carelessly?

08-09-2020, 09:31 PM	#58
Rupert Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Wellington, NZ	Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech] I held, from the time we first saw the clone army, that the original storm troopers (the clones) were quite good, and that over time having to replace them via normal recruitment methods meant that the standards dropped. They didn't have to, but as they moved from being a battlefield army to an army of occupation, and thus needed to recruit vast numbers for what clearly because a fairly unpopular job, the quality of recruit they had to accept dropped and the sort of person willing to sign up became more someone who liked power and the ability to bully people rather than someone who wanted to defend their home, family, and way of life. Thus the storm troopers went from an army born and bred to fight wars to one recruited from would-be thugs to bully the civilian population. For that you don't need the best armour, or great tactics and marksmanship either. Now, this was head-canon and some of it matches what became actual canon, but not all. The storm troopers took relatively light losses in the boarding action at the beginning of ANH, considering it was an opposed boarding via a single point of entry, and if many of their losses were only injured we could assume that the armour stops flash and blast effects fairly well, but like Vietnam-era flak jackets was never intended to stop gunfire. Of course once they'd established control of their point of entry it was a fairly easy fight for them (relatively speaking), because the defenders were ship crew with no real armour at all and probably even less training - they were pilots and techs, not assault troopers. __________________ Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."

08-10-2020, 09:15 AM	#60
pawsplay Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech] Stormtrooper armor is generally considered good equipment, but it is not designed to maximize protection. That is a recurrent theme, from Stormtrooper armor to TIE fighters, skimping on defenses to save on costs and relying on a doctrine of total offense, troop loyalty, and massive numbers to win. The original Stomtroopers were of course clone troopers. The Emperor was leery of a military coup, and hence the Stormtrooper legions were placed under his direct command rather than the Imperial Army or Navy. That is why Vader marches around with Stormtroopers doing whatever he wants, but he is not in command of a large ship or outpost. According to (older, possibly non-canon) lore, the newest stormtroopers were recruited primarily from Imperial loyalty organizations and CoreSec, with veteran Imperial Army officers with established loyalty being recruited directly to serve as officers. So anyway, the protective value of the armor is going to be sufficient, but not excellent, and probably based on a low cost, low tech solution. It's not as good, for instance, as the armor routinely worn by mercenaries and bounty hunters. But it stops enough glancing shots and minimizes casualties enough to be worthwhile, and protects from shrapnel. In canon, its main value is basic vacuum protection, temperature regulation, and close and long range scanners built into an advanced HUD (hence Luke not being able to see because he has no idea what he's doing and the actual goggles are not really well-spaced for vision). In my view, its best modeled as TL 9 armor with TL 11 upgrades, loaded up with TL 10-11 equipment. Its also supposedly stun-resistant (probably at +2 HT against stun and shock weapons).