Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech]

[AlexanderHowl]

Just out of curiousity, what happens if you give Star Wars Stormtroopers TL 11 Combat Hardsuits with TL11 Combat Infantry Helmets? Other than extremely dead teddy bears in the third movie?

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Just out of curiousity, what happens if you give Star Wars Stormtroopers TL 11 Combat Hardsuits with TL11 Combat Infantry Helmets? Other than extremely dead teddy bears in the third movie?

You get ST 40 teddy bears. :P :D

[Phantasm]

Speaking from experience: You get nigh-unstoppable soldiers the Rebel forces with their pistols need to outthink rather than blow away with a single shot.

In my first GURPS Star Wars campaign, I gave the stormtroopers an effective HT 12 (including Fit) and Combat Hardsuits. It took the players by surprise when the troopers didn't fall over with one shot; most of the troopers shrugged off the PCs' guns.

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Speaking from experience: You get nigh-unstoppable soldiers the Rebel forces with their pistols need to outthink rather than blow away with a single shot.

In my first GURPS Star Wars campaign, I gave the stormtroopers an effective HT 12 (including Fit) and Combat Hardsuits. It took the players by surprise when the troopers didn't fall over with one shot; most of the troopers shrugged off the PCs' guns.

Part of it is peoples' misunderstanding of what is happening. The jawa sandcrawler's treads got blown apart with precision shots between the treads; C3-PO and R2D2 were not targets of interest in the battle on Princess Leias' ship (meaning that both attackers and defenders were extremely accurate); the Millenium Falcon had a tracker on it, and so Darth Vader wanted Leia and company to *escape.

People strong in the Force (Leia, Luke, Han, and Obi-Wan) have at least subconscious precognition; note Obi-Wan deliberately choosing the exact right moments to move to avoid (stormtrooper) notice in the Death Star.

For that matter, the speeder chase on Endors' moon would require incredible reflexes to survive; both Luke (a Jedi, of sorts), and Leia (strong in the Force) survive. The stormtroopers do rather well, considering they're probably going ~200 mph through dense forest, but it's hard to compete with precognition, even if subconscious.

Also, Luke would have had no idea how to turn the helmets' integrated HUD on, and if I recall correctly, just slapped it onto his head and complained of the visibility. Han showed no such problems or complaints, and was an Imperial officer at one point.

* Both to track down the rebel base, and, perhaps, subconsciously.

Edit: Broken italic.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad!

Part of it is peoples' misunderstanding of what is happening. The jawa sandcrawler's treads got blown apart with precision shots between the treads; C3-PO and R2D2 were not targets of interest in the battle on Princess Leias' ship (meaning that both attackers and defenders were extremely accurate); the Millenium Falcon had a tracker on it, and so Darth Vader wanted Leia and company to *escape.

Of course, the fact that nearly every piece of Star Wars media since A New Hope also forgets the stormtroopers are meant to be elite and their poor performance was an act doesn't really help matters (there's a humorous exchange in The Mandalorian when someone is introduced as a former imperial sharpshooter and Mando responds with "That's not saying much," for example).

Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad!

Also, Luke would have had no idea how to turn the helmets' integrated HUD on, and if I recall correctly, just slapped it onto his head and complained of the visibility. Han showed no such problems or complaints, and was an Imperial officer at one point.

IIRC, that line wasn't even scripted - Mark Hamill was complaining to Harrison Ford about how hard it was to see in the prop helmet, not realizing the cameras were still rolling, and they opted to keep it in. But, yeah, pretty much.

As for what the 'troopers might be wearing, something like a tacsuit (or maybe just a skinsuit, both UT178) would work for the "body glove," and the rigid armor panels would probably give 5/6 protection to most of the hit locations. Their helmet is probably a Combat Infantry Helmet. I'd design their armor using the relevant Pyramid articles.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Of course, the fact that nearly every piece of Star Wars media since A New Hope also forgets the stormtroopers are meant to be elite and their poor performance was an act doesn't really help matters (there's a humorous exchange in The Mandalorian when someone is introduced as a former imperial sharpshooter and Mando responds with "That's not saying much," for example).

And from that same show, a comedic scene where two bored Stormtroopers shoot at a piece of trash from about 10 feet away and repeatedly miss.

Another piece of evidence from the Disney canon in favor of normal armor being pretty useless is that the armor that actually does block blaster bolts (whats-her-face's silver armor from the movies, beskar from The Mandalorian) is a big deal.

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Of course, the fact that nearly every piece of Star Wars media since A New Hope also forgets the stormtroopers are meant to be elite and their poor performance was an act doesn't really help matters (there's a humorous exchange in The Mandalorian when someone is introduced as a former imperial sharpshooter and Mando responds with "That's not saying much," for example).

IIRC, that line wasn't even scripted - Mark Hamill was complaining to Harrison Ford about how hard it was to see in the prop helmet, not realizing the cameras were still rolling, and they opted to keep it in. But, yeah, pretty much.

Yeah... a lot of what people think they know about various popular works of fiction is/was false, then goes into further instances of that fiction as fans turn into writers, which then changes to match those ideas...

...for example, the nuStar Trek movies completely missed Captain Kirk's skill at chess (being a rated Grandmaster on Vulcan); his love of retro in general (antique glasses, antique books, replicas of sailing ships; a replica (probably not a restoration, after all that time) of the Commodore PET); or that he only bluffed when all other feasible and palatable options were unavailable.

Captain Kirk's Commodore PET, and other retro things:

https://imgur.com/gallery/pjcNPjt/comment/629824738

...But I digress.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Varyon

As for what the 'troopers might be wearing, something like a tacsuit (or maybe just a skinsuit, both UT178) would work for the "body glove," and the rigid armor panels would probably give 5/6 protection to most of the hit locations. Their helmet is probably a Combat Infantry Helmet. I'd design their armor using the relevant Pyramid articles.

I wouldn't make the armour only protect on 5/6. I'd just call those armour chinks and be done with it. That gives high skill PCs a chance to show off. A 1/6 chance to hit a thin skinsuit encourages using massed auto-fire and thus the very opposite of the sort of high-skill cinematic heroes show.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad!

Part of it is peoples' misunderstanding of what is happening. The jawa sandcrawler's treads got blown apart with precision shots between the treads; C3-PO and R2D2 were not targets of interest in the battle on Princess Leias' ship (meaning that both attackers and defenders were extremely accurate); the Millenium Falcon had a tracker on it, and so Darth Vader wanted Leia and company to *escape.

People strong in the Force (Leia, Luke, Han, and Obi-Wan) have at least subconscious precognition; note Obi-Wan deliberately choosing the exact right moments to move to avoid (stormtrooper) notice in the Death Star.

For that matter, the speeder chase on Endors' moon would require incredible reflexes to survive; both Luke (a Jedi, of sorts), and Leia (strong in the Force) survive. The stormtroopers do rather well, considering they're probably going ~200 mph through dense forest, but it's hard to compete with precognition, even if subconscious.

Also, Luke would have had no idea how to turn the helmets' integrated HUD on, and if I recall correctly, just slapped it onto his head and complained of the visibility. Han showed no such problems or complaints, and was an Imperial officer at one point.

* Both to track down the rebel base, and, perhaps, subconsciously.

Edit: Broken italic.

True, in the original trilogy the stormtroopers oscillate between 'inept cannon fodder' and 'reasonably effective elite troops'. Sometimes over the course of a single movie.

In ANH, for ex, the stormtroopers do a credible job of breaching Leia's ship, overrunning the defenders, and capture Leia fairly quickly. Only the fact that the Force is with R2-D2 enables the Death Star files to slip away. Later, we see that they wiped out the Jawa sandcrawler and did it in such a way that only a Jedi or other expert would realize that it was actually a false-flag.

But then we see Han Solo panic a whole platoon of them and chase them through the corridors all alone. Played for laughs.

The stormtroopers do a credible job of overrunning the Rebel HQ on Hoth, and handle that interminable speeder bike sequence well enough. But then they get owned by low-tech teddy bears.

(That sequence would have been more believable if Lucas had gone with the original plan of having the Ewoks be Wookies.)

But that's a side-effect of the fact that SW started out as a light-hearted, fun romp, a takeoff on the old movie serials from the 30s and 40s. Just like them, when it was more fun to play the enemy for laughs, they did. When they needed the enemy to be dangerous, they were.

Later, this immense would-be-serious structure was built atop the foundation of ANH and its light-hearted origins, and so you end up with elite feared stormtroopers who come across as a joke.

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

(That sequence would have been more believable if Lucas had gone with the original plan of having the Ewoks be Wookies.)

...That's my new headcanon.

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

But that's a side-effect of the fact that SW started out as a light-hearted, fun romp, a takeoff on the old movie serials from the 30s and 40s. Just like them, when it was more fun to play the enemy for laughs, they did. When they needed the enemy to be dangerous, they were.

Later, this immense would-be-serious structure was built atop the foundation of ANH and its light-hearted origins, and so you end up with elite feared stormtroopers who come across as a joke.

True; ultimately, an entire massive edifice was built on top of a foundation that was never intended to hold it.

Also true that clashing themes are disfavoured in modern fiction.