Intraparty theivery

thulben · 12-10-2009, 03:07 PM

So...the player for the thief character in my DF game asked me last night if he could steal from another player's character. I like the idea as it amuses me and I don't see anything against it per se (aside from the thief having 'SOD - Adventuring Companions'), but I'm wondering how do we pull this off mechanically? I know he'd roll against Filch and other thievery skills, but how do I get the object(s) stolen off of the other character's sheet? Any advice would be welcome.

Nymdok · 12-10-2009, 03:14 PM

IF your using digital charachter sheets that only you as the GM sees, its really not hard at all. Some will even let you drag and drop!

Otherwise, write it down behind a screen and get used to saying
"You reach for the <item> and it isn't there"

Nymdok

p.s. My daughter took kleptomania as a Dissad in our fantasy game. It was entertaining!

Edit: Note that in that game, because of the kleptomania, there were times when even SHE didnt know she had stolen it!

Exxar · 12-10-2009, 03:51 PM

Yup. Do the thieving in private with your thief player, and take notes on what he stole and from whom. And the next time the victim reaches for the stolen items, calmly inform him that they aren't there :)

Refplace · 12-10-2009, 04:30 PM

And note that the thief may do this in town where it is less obvious who took it.
Smart PCs may take an inventory on a regular basis or just notice an item is missing rather then just when they declare they are reaching for it in combat.

Agemegos · 12-10-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thulben

So...the player for the thief character in my DF game asked me last night if he could steal from another player's character. I like the idea as it amuses me and I don't see anything against it per se (aside from the thief having 'SOD - Adventuring Companions'), but I'm wondering how do we pull this off mechanically? I know he'd roll against Filch and other thievery skills, but how do I get the object(s) stolen off of the other character's sheet? Any advice would be welcome.

I think you ought to think very carefully about how this gets to be fun for the other players. Are they going to enjoy losing their good stuff? How are they likely to react, and will their reactions and future countermeasures make the game more fun?

You should also think about what happens when the thief fails a Filch roll and gets caught, and the other PCs hang him. It is inevitable that he will fail or critically fail eventually.

My experience of this sort of thing (both as GM and as character-player) is that it isn't fun for the other players, that it is highly disruptive to the game, and that it produces significant annoyance, irritation, and ill-feeling. I know three former gamers whom no-one will play with any more because of their propensities for secret PC-vs.-PC action. It just isn't fun to play in games those guys are in.

Finally, a character should not steal from those he has a sense of duty to.

whswhs · 12-10-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thulben

So...the player for the thief character in my DF game asked me last night if he could steal from another player's character. I like the idea as it amuses me and I don't see anything against it per se (aside from the thief having 'SOD - Adventuring Companions'), but I'm wondering how do we pull this off mechanically? I know he'd roll against Filch and other thievery skills, but how do I get the object(s) stolen off of the other character's sheet? Any advice would be welcome.

If he has SOD: Adventuring Companions, and he steals anything from them, he forfeits all experience for that session. You can't do anything that would make people worse off if you have SOD. You could make an exception if it's a prank and he's going to give it back, or if he's stealing something that they'd use to hurt themselves, like taking an alcoholic's bottle of booze.

Bill Stoddard

The_Nightwatch · 12-10-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett

I think you ought to think very carefully about how this gets to be fun for the other players. Are they going to enjoy losing their good stuff? How are they likely to react, and will their reactions and future countermeasures make the game more fun?

You should also think about what happens when the thief fails a Filch roll and gets caught, and the other PCs hang him. It is inevitable that he will fail or critically fail eventually.

My experience of this sort of thing (both as GM and as character-player) is that it isn't fun for the other players, that it is highly disruptive to the game, and that it produces significant annoyance, irritation, and ill-feeling. I know three former gamers whom no-one will play with any more because of their propensities for secret PC-vs.-PC action. It just isn't fun to play in games those guys are in.

Finally, a character should not steal from those he has a sense of duty to.

Agreed. 1) Unless he's stealing their spare underwear to write naughty things on and then put back, make sure the other players aren't going to get upset. You could lose your campaign. If they're okay with it, then of course charge right ahead. 2) If they violate their Sense of Duty, at least don't award them any points for roleplay that session...right?

baakyocalder · 12-10-2009, 08:08 PM

Intraparty thievery is more a metagame issue than a mechanics issue.

I'd certainly dock a player roleplaying points for not playing their Sense of Duty: Adventuring Companions if they steal from them.

This brings up an important part of Sense of Duty in party-based DF games: the party charter. Quality adventuring parties have rules and codes of conduct to keep the generally insane, anti-social members of the party from going too far against other party members.

In my HackMaster group, the party charter always forbade stealing from the party. The more humorous version of party justice in the charter stated that in-party thieves would receive a dagger, 2 silver pieces (a small amount of money, or about 0.2 gold in AD&D terms) and a one-day head start. . .

Stripe · 12-10-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett

I think you ought to think very carefully about how this gets to be fun for the other players. Are they going to enjoy losing their good stuff? How are they likely to react, and will their reactions and future countermeasures make the game more fun?

You should also think about what happens when the thief fails a Filch roll and gets caught, and the other PCs hang him. It is inevitable that he will fail or critically fail eventually.

My experience of this sort of thing (both as GM and as character-player) is that it isn't fun for the other players, that it is highly disruptive to the game, and that it produces significant annoyance, irritation, and ill-feeling. I know three former gamers whom no-one will play with any more because of their propensities for secret PC-vs.-PC action. It just isn't fun to play in games those guys are in.

Finally, a character should not steal from those he has a sense of duty to.

I've only been GMing for about... 15 years or so, and playing for a little longer, but my experience has always been the exact opposite.

I remember in a Star Wars d6 game, one of the players stole our ship and took off with it. I couldn't stop laughing for like five minutes.

In another game, I was given a fat sack of loot, like $5,000, to give to the other players, and I gave ALL $3,000 of it to them.

But, no way is this good role playing at all if the character has SOD (Adventuring Party).

Agemegos · 12-10-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripe

I've only been GMing for about... 15 years or so, and playing for a little longer, but my experience has always been the exact opposite.

Some people enjoy player-vs.-player games, at least sometimes. It's a mainstay of LARPing, for instance. And that's fine as long as everyone gets what they signed up for. However, allowing one player to unilaterally introduce player-vs.-player elements into a game that they weren't part of from the beginning has dangers.

Some players don't like P-v-P games, and they will resent it if their game is turned into one without their being consulted.
Nobody likes playing the woobie, so if you allow one player to go anti-party but forbid the others, you will definitely lose the campaign.
Dungeon Fantasy is not balanced and stabilised for P-v-P games. If you allow P-v-P play, the thief will steal from the fighter, and then the fighter will beat the thief unconscious, skin him alive, and hang him in a tree to dry.

Before you allow a change in the way the game is played, you have to think through what is going to happen.

12-10-2009, 03:07 PM	#1
thulben Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SF Bay Area, CA	Intraparty theivery So...the player for the thief character in my DF game asked me last night if he could steal from another player's character. I like the idea as it amuses me and I don't see anything against it per se (aside from the thief having 'SOD - Adventuring Companions'), but I'm wondering how do we pull this off mechanically? I know he'd roll against Filch and other thievery skills, but how do I get the object(s) stolen off of the other character's sheet? Any advice would be welcome.

12-10-2009, 03:14 PM	#2
Nymdok Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Houston	Re: Intraparty theivery IF your using digital charachter sheets that only you as the GM sees, its really not hard at all. Some will even let you drag and drop! Otherwise, write it down behind a screen and get used to saying "You reach for the <item> and it isn't there" Nymdok p.s. My daughter took kleptomania as a Dissad in our fantasy game. It was entertaining! Edit: Note that in that game, because of the kleptomania, there were times when even SHE didnt know she had stolen it! Last edited by Nymdok; 12-10-2009 at 03:53 PM.

12-10-2009, 03:51 PM	#3
Exxar MIB Join Date: Oct 2005	Re: Intraparty theivery Yup. Do the thieving in private with your thief player, and take notes on what he stole and from whom. And the next time the victim reaches for the stolen items, calmly inform him that they aren't there :)

12-10-2009, 04:30 PM	#4
Refplace Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Yukon, OK	Re: Intraparty theivery And note that the thief may do this in town where it is less obvious who took it. Smart PCs may take an inventory on a regular basis or just notice an item is missing rather then just when they declare they are reaching for it in combat.

12-10-2009, 08:08 PM	#8
baakyocalder Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Sacramento metro, California	Re: Intraparty theivery Intraparty thievery is more a metagame issue than a mechanics issue. I'd certainly dock a player roleplaying points for not playing their Sense of Duty: Adventuring Companions if they steal from them. This brings up an important part of Sense of Duty in party-based DF games: the party charter. Quality adventuring parties have rules and codes of conduct to keep the generally insane, anti-social members of the party from going too far against other party members. In my HackMaster group, the party charter always forbade stealing from the party. The more humorous version of party justice in the charter stated that in-party thieves would receive a dagger, 2 silver pieces (a small amount of money, or about 0.2 gold in AD&D terms) and a one-day head start. . . __________________ Currently Running: Without Number family games which use a lot of GURPS material for details when the players start asking(online, sporadically) Waiting For: Schedule Sanity to Play Car Wars and my Fnordcon special alt Car Wars cards!