05-07-2012, 04:32 PM | #11 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: near Houston
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Re: Why use a SMG instead of a machine pistol?
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A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope GURPS 3e stuff: http://copeab.tripod.com Last edited by copeab; 05-07-2012 at 04:47 PM. |
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05-07-2012, 04:32 PM | #12 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Why use a SMG instead of a machine pistol?
I think this may just be an issue of resolution. Doing computations on recoil velocity, I get around 0.8 m/s for the MP40, 1.4 m/s for the M16, 1.9m/s for the M32, and 2.6m/s for the '7.62mm battle rifle' in basic, whatever exact weapon that is supposed to be. Since GURPS is reluctant to assign a Rcl of 1 to any projectile weapon, and only assigns a 3 to the battle rifle, there's just not a lot of room in there to differentiate. I wouldn't terribly mind assigning a 3 to the machine pistol and a 4 to the battle rifle, though.
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05-07-2012, 04:50 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: Why use a SMG instead of a machine pistol?
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And anyway, like a lot of why doesn't everybody in the real world use the weapon with the best GURPS statistics issues, the real answer likely comes down to stuff below the resolution of, or not covered at all by, GURPS statistics. For example GURPS ignores issues of how uncomfortable the recoil is (it'll be worse for lighter guns), how much extra length increases sighting accuracy (below the level of a full integer modifier to Acc), mostly ignores how much the gun heats up and warps (more mass slows that up), and doubtless a couple dozen other factors I'm not thinking of right now.
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05-07-2012, 04:53 PM | #14 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: Why use a SMG instead of a machine pistol?
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One thing I notice is that a C96 with extended magazine won't fit into a holster, but apparently lacks swivel slings. The user also has to manage two objects (stock and pistol) rather than one (the gun) when changing between stocked and stockless modes; a good GM could have fun with this. And GURPS ignores felt recoil, which I suspect would make a very light weapon with RoF 14 painful to shoot (which is easy to house rule into a penalty). In other words, the MP40 is easier to carry; lets the user not worry about losing the stock; and has more ammunition (that high RoF is no good if you shoot the gun empty in two seconds). All of these matter a lot to soldiers and can matter to GURPS characters without changing a single rule.
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05-07-2012, 05:03 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: near Houston
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Re: Why use a SMG instead of a machine pistol?
This was the case in 3e. For example, the Mauser C 96 had Rcl -1 in sem-iauto fire, -5 in autofire with a stock and -7 in autofire without a stock (I have been told that these convert to Rcl 2, 6, and 8 in 4e). OTOH, virtually all SMGs were Rcl -1 (Rcl 2).
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A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope GURPS 3e stuff: http://copeab.tripod.com |
05-07-2012, 10:50 PM | #16 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Why use a SMG instead of a machine pistol?
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The MP40 is certainly more accurate and lower recoil than the C96, but these are both below GURPS resolution. Well, mostly; the higher ROF of the C96 does mean it spends more bullets per hit. The fact that the MP40 can fire for four seconds at max ROF compared to the one-and-a-third for the C96 is a decent advantage. Once you factor in reload time that also means the MP40 puts slightly more lead downrange in the same period of time (About 4.5/sec instead of 4/sec). The MP40 also has a folding stock, which is much quicker to switch than the C96's, doesn't require separate storage, and makes it easier and quicker to go from "carried" to "ready". A lot of these make the MP40 rather more desirable to both the troops and the logistics guys. |
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05-07-2012, 11:36 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sierra Vista, Arizona
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Re: Why use a SMG instead of a machine pistol?
I think it's also a matter of personal style. Game stats are one thing, but I've fired both in the real world and simply prefer the feel of the SMG. There is no real logic to it...it's just a preference. And since most of my characters tend to be based upon my own personality, that preference usually bleeds over to them.
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05-08-2012, 12:02 AM | #18 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: Why use a SMG instead of a machine pistol?
If you really wanted to, you could put the C96 Rcl at 3, but that's probably going too far. Think of it this way: at max RoF, the MP40 is more accurate as fewer shots get wasted.
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05-08-2012, 12:26 AM | #19 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Berlin, Germany
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Re: Why use a SMG instead of a machine pistol?
This is all very easy to solve:
This thing doesn't exist, which makes much of the discussion, including a cost comparison, moot. No, neither High-Tech nor High-Tech: Pulp Guns 1 says otherwise. Otherwise, yes, there is a granularity problem. If you want to increase the difference, increase Rcl of machine pistols (both with and without stock) by 1. Quote:
Cheers HANS
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05-08-2012, 08:25 AM | #20 |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Re: Why use a SMG instead of a machine pistol?
This problem doesn't exist in my group. We've all handled enough weapons to recognize that a pistol on fully automatic fire is going to be unpleasant, and nobody tries it. All of the characters actually tend to carry the same weapons as the players own or carry, so overpowered rounds and pistols that have it in for your wrist just don't show up.
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Tags |
pistol, smg, wwii |
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