Age of sail currency

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

Hal, I would ask a reference librarian, but here is one online database http://www2.scc.rutgers.edu/memdb/database_list.html It has the silver content of the livre tournois changing from 11 g to 6.6 g between 1600 and 1670

This is an issue for everybody's currency. At this point most currency exchanges will be based on metal content (there's a whole profession, assayers, most of whose business comes from determining this), and that can and does vary between mint runs. This means that two different livres will exchange for a different amount despite the fact they claim to be the same denomination. This is certainly the case in international trade. Within a country it may be illegal but still happens when the government isn't looking. People will naturally pay in the least valuable run they have (this is the concept of Gresham's law), raise their prices but offer discounts if you pay in good coin, and otherwise treat coins as having different values despite having the same denomination stamped on them.

[Gigermann]

Sounds to me like adapting the Cyberworld currency fluctuation mechanic might be a good fit.

[hal]

Originally Posted by Gigermann

Sounds to me like adapting the Cyberworld currency fluctuation mechanic might be a good fit.

Might be. I came across a reference to how seriously the Spanish took their "purity" when it came to their currency - any minter who violated the specs was executed.

The English kept their purity for silver higher than did the French, and eventually, the issue (per what I read) came to a head in that English coins were valued at roughly twice the going rate for the French coins (due to debasement).

This is largely why it came to pass that 2 Libre = 1 Pound sterling early on in history. How true that remained is something I can't say yea nor nay to.

What it boils down to is trying to find out what the metal contents were for the coins and taking it from there.

When I tried the web site that has the databases on metals - every single "query" I tried regarding the Reale vs French currency came up null. It is like trying to guess the password without knowing how many letters/numbers make up the password - nor anything else. Frustrating to a degree. I may have to pull up a copy of the book and see if Amazon has a used copy for sale somewhere. If not, no biggie.

The primary reason I was looking into this in the first place, was to use RUN OUT THE GUNS as source material for a play by Fantasy Grounds campaign set in 1660 or so. RUN OUT THE GUNS has rules for various types of trading outright in addition to generating random cargoes for ships for privateers/pirates to gain through the capture of merchant ships. I figured "what the heck, age of sail, trade, adventure - where can I go wrong?".

Problem is - the prices for goods and such are all in Pieces of Eight, which makes it a tad difficult when working with any level of historical pricing on various goods (such as I have access to for that time period etc).

I hate to use Wikipedia any more than I have to - but I can always research the coins listed in GURPS SWASHBUCKLER to find out what the actual ratios were between the native currency within itself (and French currency has its own oddball historical facts as in where the coin was minted determined its worth overall) - which in turn rests partly on the lack of standardization and partly on the purity levels of the metals in question.

English currency I can largely do from memory as far as pence, shillings, crowns, pounds, Sovereigns, Marks etc. French currency is a little less familiar, yet VERY close to that of the English system (not surprising since they both are offshoots of the same original system). The Spanish currency causes me the most grief unfortunately.

What I'm seeing in GURPS SWASHBUCKLER however, makes me shake my head (where the Spanish currency is concerned) and ask "is there anything else better out there".

Thanks guys.

Hal

[Polydamas]

Currency Exchanges (Metz) -> "Currency Exchanges (Metz)" does not seem to have Spanish currency, just the livre tournois which I quoted. Pierre Martineau gives 2 reales 27 maravedis (95 maravedis) = 1 livre/franc, and 1 real de a ocho = 8 reales = 272 marevedis, so about 3 French livres = 1 piece of eight "according to one 'business arithmetic' book from the early 18th century" (whose numbers were out of date the day it was printed, but was still 'good enough' for long enough to sell).

It gives 1 pound English = 13 L 6 s. 8 d. French from the same source.

And yes it is complicated, that is why finance was a full-time job and made practicioners rich!

One good choice would be to use a period money of account and not even try to worry about what form currency is in, just lump that into an average cash-value-per-weight and a few plot points where you have money in the wrong kind of coin or a letter of credit which is hard to cash.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by hal

The measure of inflation largely suggests that the prices of goods end up requiring more coinage to purchase things. If it takes twice as much French silver coins by weight/silver content to purchase goods than it does to buy those same goods in England, ...

Also, just in case its not clear: what usually determines the value of a coin is the silver content, which can be anywhere from 1% to 100% (the rest was traditionally copper, but could include lead, tin etc.) When governments were short on cash, they called in the coins and minted new ones with a lower silver content but the same weight ... and the whole point of forging was that you could make say 6 pounds worth of coins from 4 pounds worth of silver. Eventually this leads to things like governments minting denominations like the shilling which had previously just existed on paper.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

Also, just in case its not clear: what usually determines the value of a coin is the silver content, which can be anywhere from 1% to 100% (the rest was traditionally copper, but could include lead, tin etc.) When governments were short on cash, they called in the coins and minted new ones with a lower silver content but the same weight ... and the whole point of forging was that you could make say 6 pounds worth of coins from 4 pounds worth of silver. Eventually this leads to things like governments minting denominations like the shilling which had previously just existed on paper.

According to James Burke in, an episode of one of the later Connection series, one of the English kings put in half the precious metal then had been normal for coins of that denomination. All I can remember is they coins were called "half Henrys" but it does serve as an example of a government messing around with so called "sound money".

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by maximara

According to James Burke in, an episode of one of the later Connection series, one of the English kings put in half the precious metal then had been normal for coins of that denomination. All I can remember is they coins were called "half Henrys" but it does serve as an example of a government messing around with so called "sound money".

Henry VIII was well known for issuing bad coin - I recall he was also nicknamed "old coppernose" after an issue of plated coins started to wear through to the core material.
Adulterating with tin was also quite common for some of the less financially responsible medieval kings, given the significant flow of tin from the Cornish mines.