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Old 01-13-2019, 04:07 AM   #351
warhorse11h
 
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Default Re: HEAL spell?

IQ 11, IQ 14, IQ 17 respectively
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:32 PM   #352
JLV
 
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Default Re: HEAL spell?

I still like Steve's revision of his original proposal, though I think Warhorse11 did a pretty darn good job on these three spells too.

I think it's a crying shame that a healing spell wasn't included in the game, and argue (as I did extensively months ago) that people who don't like it don't have to use it, but it should be available for those who do want one.
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Old 01-15-2019, 07:45 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by JLV View Post
I still like Steve's revision of his original proposal, though I think Warhorse11 did a pretty darn good job on these three spells too.

I think it's a crying shame that a healing spell wasn't included in the game, and argue (as I did extensively months ago) that people who don't like it don't have to use it, but it should be available for those who do want one.
I think it was a wise decision not to include a healing spell. I never felt the want of a healing spell in the original version; there was a healing potion already in the rules and if the GM felt the need he could have other magical creatures or items that provided extra healing in a scenario appropriate way.

My concern with adding a healing spell would be:

A) pressure on the Wizard to take the spell
B) pressure on the Wizard to use the spell a lot rather than doing more interesting things with his limited casting power.

Those of you who really feel the need for such a thing can just houserule it yourselves.

However, I suppose it depends on whether you are of the opinion that it's easier to take rules out rather than to add them. And that's a very individual thing.
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Old 01-15-2019, 08:22 PM   #354
Skarg
 
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Default Re: HEAL spell?

Yes, a healing spell in the book would materially change the setting expectations and lose the example of a game that works well without having a healing spell.

If one were included, it should be more well thought out and some discussion given to that the spell wasn't in the original game and will affect gameplay so GMs should choose whether such a spell is known or not, mindful of the consequences.

All that said, it's not even a house rule per se to have a healing spell in a TFT campaign - there are guidelines and rules for even PCs to invent new spells during play, and certainly GMs are free to add their own spells and/or change, remove, or embellish the spells that are known in their campaigns.

When adding or modifying spells, I suggest GMs do their best to consider all the implications and potential abuses and exploits by determined creative players, because when some magic is established as existing and working a certain way, and then some players figure out how to do very powerful things with it, it can be a big mess. I've tried to point out such issues in this thread.
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Old 01-15-2019, 08:29 PM   #355
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Default Re: HEAL spell?

So take the healing away from the wizard:

Healing Moss is found somewhere in every dungeon, but is very difficult to find. Take 15 minutes searching and on a 6/IQ roll for a Physicker (5/IQ for Master Physicker, 4/IQ for Woodsman and 3/IQ for Expert Naturalist, no other talents or spells help) find a number of doses equal to your margin of success. Add a die for each previous search in the same area. Critical failures bring in lookalikes that make the patient think they've been healed. Roll the number of doses of fake healing moss in dice against ST or suffer the same effects as Hallucinogenic mushrooms.

Each dose takes five minutes to apply. Roll 4/DX for a Woodsman, 3/DX for a Physicker, or 2/DX for a Master Physicker and on a success heal one additional hit.

Must be used within an hour of harvesting and within an hour of the wound to have any effect, but Alchemists will buy dried doses for $10 each to replace other ingredients in a healing potion.
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Last edited by hcobb; 01-15-2019 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 01-15-2019, 08:53 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
If one were included, it should be more well thought out and some discussion given to that the spell wasn't in the original game and will affect gameplay so GMs should choose whether such a spell is known or not, mindful of the consequences.
Hey Skarg, I'm curious what you thought of my solution over in the 'Powers' thread.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=57

I considered many of the concerns and suggestions raised in this very thread as I was designing it (quite a long, but helpful exercise reading all those posts back to Steve's original proposal).
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:34 AM   #357
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Hey Skarg, I'm curious what you thought of my solution over in the 'Powers' thread.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=57

I considered many of the concerns and suggestions raised in this very thread as I was designing it (quite a long, but helpful exercise reading all those posts back to Steve's original proposal).
Honestly that's one thread I actually haven't read, because I've been really busy and it seemed to be about a powers variant that seemed like it would take some effort to digest and appreciate.

So I'm not sure how well I can comment since I've only really now read the first post and the one you just linked.

For instance, I don't know if it's in the context where the only way to learn talents is to spend 500XP per point.

And I don't know if there are other prereqs besides spending the listed XP?

Because if it is essentially 1 talent point worth of learning per power, but with a limit of 5, then 500XP seems quite cheap for a magic power. If Bob gets level 1, 2, and 3, is that 500 + 500 + 500 XP? Or 500 + 1000 + 1500 XP?

But maybe the expectation is they only go to certain special (?) people, and the balance is more about being able to learn them in the first place, and having to choose 5 from a big menu of tempting juicy power portfolios which I haven't studied? I don't see any sort of prerequisites other than the preceding powers in a portfolio? (This is the sort of thing that had me not read the thread yet, because I figured it would take a time/attention investment to appreciate, and seems like a super powers sort of game, which generally isn't my preferred style of setting.)

Leaving all those questions aside, the healing power has a great advantage over SJ and most other proposed spells, in that it does not create a scheduling game about resting up fatigue and casting the Aid spell as much as possible to keep using it. That's great.

And it is limited to a rate per user per day, which is also, I think, good.

It does range quite a bit in what that maximum is, starting at 2/user/day, up to 15/user/day for a master physicker with the level 5 power, who also gets 4 other super powers to use.

2/day is quite useful, but not a huge effect. 5/day I would call a strong effect. 15/day seems to me like a really big deal, since it lets you heal up even a hugely-wounded warrior who would normally take weeks of bed rest to heal, in one day, and/or path up most wounds a party might take from a typical encounter where someone got hurt, in one day. And it seems you could do it while marching, adventuring, etc.

So the level of healing hero is quite significant, and then the question becomes how rare are these people who have these powers, can PCs start with them, can PCs find NPC people with them fairly easily and convince/pay they to join their party, how hard is it to gain these powers, etc.

And then how many healers of what level will determine how quickly wounds vanish for the people who have them. And that's a matter of GM/player preference for availability of healing.

So, it seems like healing at somewhere from moderate to quite strong, to me, and in a version that is nicely easy to see what it is (unlike spells that attempt to limit by fatigue). So, good job (even if my own taste would be to have it be unknown or very rare, because I like people to usually have to actually rest for days to heal up major wounds).
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:47 AM   #358
JLV
 
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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
I think it was a wise decision not to include a healing spell. I never felt the want of a healing spell in the original version; there was a healing potion already in the rules and if the GM felt the need he could have other magical creatures or items that provided extra healing in a scenario appropriate way.

My concern with adding a healing spell would be:

A) pressure on the Wizard to take the spell
B) pressure on the Wizard to use the spell a lot rather than doing more interesting things with his limited casting power.

Those of you who really feel the need for such a thing can just houserule it yourselves.

However, I suppose it depends on whether you are of the opinion that it's easier to take rules out rather than to add them. And that's a very individual thing.
Yes, you and I have long disagreed about this topic. I feel it should be available (and will undoubtedly add one to my games) and you don't. Pretty straightforward; different strokes for different folks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
So take the healing away from the wizard:

Healing Moss is found somewhere in every dungeon, but is very difficult to find. Take 15 minutes searching and on a 6/IQ roll for a Physicker (5/IQ for Master Physicker, 4/IQ for Woodsman and 3/IQ for Expert Naturalist, no other talents or spells help) find a number of doses equal to your margin of success. Add a die for each previous search in the same area. Critical failures bring in lookalikes that make the patient think they've been healed. Roll the number of doses of fake healing moss in dice against ST or suffer the same effects as Hallucinogenic mushrooms.

Each dose takes five minutes to apply. Roll 4/DX for a Woodsman, 3/DX for a Physicker, or 2/DX for a Master Physicker and on a success heal one additional hit.

Must be used within an hour of harvesting and within an hour of the wound to have any effect, but Alchemists will buy dried doses for $10 each to replace other ingredients in a healing potion.
I'm pretty sure the purists will completely disagree with this approach too -- too easy to get plenty of healing that way too -- and adding a healing spell eliminates all those special rules that you just created...

Last edited by JLV; 01-16-2019 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:38 AM   #359
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Honestly, if the point is to have less time spent being incapacitated, I'd just steal a page from newer editions of D&D and vastly increase natural healing rates.
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:37 AM   #360
warhorse11h
 
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Originally Posted by JLV View Post
I think it's a crying shame that a healing spell wasn't included in the game, and argue (as I did extensively months ago) that people who don't like it don't have to use it, but it should be available for those who do want one.
I agree with this sentiment. It should have been included in the game, if nothing else, as an optional spell for those who wanted to incorporate it.

That was the reason I put the various versions of the spells here that I have developed or the course of time. To make them available to those who want them, at least as a starting point to work from. It was not intended to start an acrimonious debate that could go on forever. It also was not done to have the quality of my thought processes derided or insulted as they have been here. And I have been guilty of it to, with others.

Some of the more vigorous opponents of a healing spell have developed a simple solution to extra healing without a magical spell. Healing by wound done by a physicker or master physicker, not by combat. It is a simple solution to the question, modifying only one rule regarding two talents and in many cases will offer as much or more healing than the spells listed above. If I had gone down that road initially, I might be in the other camp now. But I didn't and I am reluctant to give up what I have developed without giving it a fair chance in play. It is a viable and effective option though.

Last edited by warhorse11h; 01-16-2019 at 02:56 AM.
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