Decaying Cyclic

[Mark Skarr]

Okay, so Sage’s beam drone’s annihilation beam does 10d (∞) corr inc as a tight-beam. It’s also a decaying cyclic . . . how would that get priced.

On the turn the target gets hit, it’s 10d. On the next turn (turn 1), it’s 9d. On turn 2, it’s 8d. Down to 1d on turn 9, then the damage dissipates. That’s only 45d of cyclic-inflicted damage, so is that 4.5 levels of one-second cyclic (at +100%, so +450%), just treated differently? Or is it something else?

My, personal suggestion would be to keep it simple and figure it like I did. It’s 4.5 levels of one-second cyclic.

Is there something I've missed? Are there other suggestions?

[Anaraxes]

Price it at the average -- and then I'd bump the cost up by a little bit (say, 20%), because damage now is a little more valuable than the same amount of damage later. (And 10 turns later is a long time in combat.) Keep in mind that damage also includes disabling effects like shock, so front-loading those effects makes it easier to take out the target's effectiveness quickly, even if it doesn't kill them.

Sum of 1 to 10 is 55, not 45.

[Varyon]

10% of the damage has Cyclic 1, 10% has Cyclic 2, 10% has Cyclic 3, 10% has Cyclic 4, 10% has Cyclic 5, 10% has Cyclic 6, 10% has Cyclic 7, 10% has Cyclic 8, and 10% has Cyclic 9. As each iteration of Cyclic (1 sec) is +100%, this is 10+20+30+40+50+60+70+80+90=+450%. So, while we came to it the same way, that price works just fine.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Sum of 1 to 10 is 55, not 45.

But, the sum of 1 to 9 is 45, because the basic damage isn't affected by Cyclic.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

But, the sum of 1 to 9 is 45, because the basic damage isn't affected by Cyclic.

Good point; I stand corrected.

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

I do, however, agree that front-loading the damage is more effective than a simple mean average would say.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad!

I do, however, agree that front-loading the damage is more effective than a simple mean average would say.

Keep in mind you're paying for frontloading that damage - the ability is 10d corr, for a base cost of [100]. I could potentially see justification for a discount for it taking longer than necessary in this case, although I think it's fine as-is. To avoid any questions of if it's appropriate to apply a modifier to partial levels of a trait (as I suggested above), let's consider a weaker variant, doing 5d corr upon hit, 4d the next second, 3d the second after that, and so forth. From the above methodologies, this would be +200% and deal an extra 10d over the course of 4 seconds. +200% would be able to instead be two full-damage 1-second cycles, dealing that same extra 10, but over the course of only 2 seconds.

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Keep in mind you're paying for frontloading that damage - the ability is 10d corr, for a base cost of [100]. I could potentially see justification for a discount for it taking longer than necessary in this case, although I think it's fine as-is. To avoid any questions of if it's appropriate to apply a modifier to partial levels of a trait (as I suggested above), let's consider a weaker variant, doing 5d corr upon hit, 4d the next second, 3d the second after that, and so forth. From the above methodologies, this would be +200% and deal an extra 10d over the course of 4 seconds. +200% would be able to instead be two full-damage 1-second cycles, dealing that same extra 10, but over the course of only 2 seconds.

Conceded. :)

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Okay, so Sage’s beam drone’s annihilation beam does 10d (∞) corr inc as a tight-beam. It’s also a decaying cyclic . . . how would that get priced.

On the turn the target gets hit, it’s 10d. On the next turn (turn 1), it’s 9d. On turn 2, it’s 8d. Down to 1d on turn 9, then the damage dissipates. That’s only 45d of cyclic-inflicted damage, so is that 4.5 levels of one-second cyclic (at +100%, so +450%), just treated differently? Or is it something else?

My, personal suggestion would be to keep it simple and figure it like I did. It’s 4.5 levels of one-second cyclic.

That seems to fall in line with Partially Enhanced Abilities (ie Declining Enhancements) approach to leveled abilities.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

damage now is a little more valuable than the same amount of damage later

Cyclic is a weird situation due to it's healing though.

if I get hit with Corrosion Attack 3d [30] which rolled 10 basic damage and (x2 injury) and suffer 20 HP on my face, I don't need to make a death check (didn't go BELOW -1xHP, just on the brink) and a pair of 3-energy Greater Healing spells from The Mage Twins can patch that right up and I'll be fine the rest of the week that the twins go on their yacht cruise.

If I get hit with Corrosion Attack 0.25d (ten daily cycles +100%) [5] on the other hand: I'm not just losing 2 HP per day, but unless circumstances are met to terminate the cycle (like washing my face) magic can't repair that lost HP until the 10 days are up, dooming me to a very long period of vulnerability to further injury.

This isn't so bad if Mage Twins know some water spells, but what if they're pure-healing and we live in a desert where water is scarce?

I'm actually wondering if we couldn't do Cyclic by just buying Onset of various times on specific levels of Innate Attack though, and allowing buying Terminal Condition on Innate Attack if meeting the condition removes the parked attack.

- -

Kind of like a power to create bombs which always go off exactly 1 hour after I produce the bomb...

Burning Attack (Melee -35%, Explosive +50%, Onset -10%, Terminal Condition: disarm -5%)

I guessed above that because I think an IQish skill roll could discover it's a disarmable bomb (-10%) but it'd be difficult to meet the condition (a DXish skill) which halves limitation value to -5%

Both attacking (planting bomb) and result of attack (damage-to-come) are probably obvious by default: if it's a subtle bomb that probably has Low Signature enhancement. Without that it's probably loudly beeping, brightly flashing, etc as a warning I'd speculate.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Keep in mind you're paying for frontloading that damage - the ability is 10d corr, for a base cost of [100]. I could potentially see justification for a discount for it taking longer than necessary in this case, although I think it's fine as-is. To avoid any questions of if it's appropriate to apply a modifier to partial levels of a trait (as I suggested above), let's consider a weaker variant, doing 5d corr upon hit, 4d the next second, 3d the second after that, and so forth. From the above methodologies, this would be +200% and deal an extra 10d over the course of 4 seconds. +200% would be able to instead be two full-damage 1-second cycles, dealing that same extra 10, but over the course of only 2 seconds.

I think spreading the damage out, and preventing the healing over the extra time balances out the lowering of the damage line.

Originally Posted by Plane

This isn't so bad if Mage Twins know some water spells, but what if they're pure-healing and we live in a desert where water is scarce?

That isn't germane to the discussion. What powers or abilities other characters may or may not have does not impact the cost of this power.

Additionally, the second attack is warned against, in two different places:

Originally Posted by Characters, pg 104

Burning or corrosion attacks shouldn’t have intervals longer than 10 seconds.

And, in the next paragraph:

Originally Posted by Characters, pg 104

The GM should consider limiting large numbers of cycles to attacks that do less than 1d damage.

Changing the damage to Toxic--congratulations, you've been poisoned. Best to seek medical attention. Everything is fine.

The more relevant question is: what "reasonably common set of circumstances" can halt the damage caused by a beam of energy that causes rapid molecular/atomic decay?

My short answer is "none, that's why it's a one-second interval--you just can't do anything about it."

Originally Posted by Plane

I'm actually wondering if we couldn't do Cyclic by just buying Onset of various times on specific levels of Innate Attack though, and allowing buying Terminal Condition on Innate Attack if meeting the condition removes the parked attack.

I'm sure you could, but why would you want to? That is far more complicated than it is worth.