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Old 03-05-2021, 07:11 AM   #11
Aldric
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Invisibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
And I'm not sure how 10 levels of Obscure + Stealthy wouldn't be the same as Invisibility- it's often treated as the same in other discussion on the forum.
Because you can detect the boundary of the effect (at no bonus because of stealthy) which makes it possible to realize that something is there, even if it remains undetected.
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Old 03-05-2021, 07:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Invisibility

As per Powers p65, Stealthy produces a Stealth Field, which prevents detection of the user and the field itself. It doesn't impede signals crossing the field and is itself invisible.
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Last edited by Daigoro; 03-05-2021 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:24 AM   #13
ericthered
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Invisibility

Invisibility is fun. Especially in combination with insubstantial. One of my favorite characters is a Monster Hunter Monstrous Ghost Brother who just went where-ever he wanted and watched whoever he wanted. The joke was he was the police department's resident ghost because he always went in there to look at their forensic reports (the cases they were solving were high-profile).
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:25 AM   #14
Celjabba
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Invisibility

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Originally Posted by WingedKagouti View Post
You can detect if something is Obscured, but with the Stealthy modifier you just can't determine an accurate location, size or shape. With Invisibility you don't detect anything.
Actually, with Stealthy and 10 level of Obscure, you cannot detect anything either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Power p65
By default, Obscure is a detectable jamming field or cloud around the user.
...
Stealth Field: A subtle effect that prevents detection of the user and the
field itself
.
However, the Obscure built need to get rid of the"everything in your vicinity" aspect. Selective Area +20% should do it.

Obscure 10 (Vision; Defensive, +50%; Stealthy, +100%; Selective Area, +20%; Extended, Infra-Red, +20%; Extended, Ultraviolet, +20%; Extended Low-Band, +30%; Extended High-Band, +30%) [74] should be, for all intent and purpose, equal or better than invisibility.

Extended Low-Band and Extended High-Band cover the entire electromagnetic spectrum, from radio waves to gamma rays (including all infrared bands).
I borrowed them from Hyperspectral vision. Since Hyperespectral cover IR and UV, arguably, low and high are worth 60% of IR and UV, so here it should be twice +12% instead of twice +30%. But let's be generous, it doesn't really matter with a low cost ability like obscure.

Last edited by Celjabba; 03-05-2021 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:07 AM   #15
Plane
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Invisibility

One neat contrast with Invisibility vs Stealthy Obscure would be the 'walking through a crowd' idea.

With invisibility, you won't see the walker but you'll see the crowd gaps.

With Obscure, you won't notice that 2y radius even has a gap...

But then one unavoidable aspect is the crowd itself is going to start bumping into each other (they won't perceive each other, or even themselves)

I think while Selective Area could exclude certain hexes (2y radius is either 1+6 or 1+6+11, always get confused with AE tbh) you would use Selective Effect to choose who is affected (similar to invisibility) so you could allow the crowd to perceive each other (not bump into each other) but not to perceive you...

Although conceptually I'm not sure how that works... if a crowd can perceive the entire rest of the crowd EXCEPT you then it's hard to think they would be unable to perceive a gap in the crowd...

I think to get that you'd need some middle ground like "crowd only perceives directly adjacent crowd members to avoid collisions, but doesn't perceive the ENTIRE crowd so they can't notice where there's gaps".

I'm not sure how flexible Selective Effect is meant to be here. Could you maybe specify "my obscure prevents observers from noticing specific visual details about me, but not that I am an obstacle for them to walk around or avoid" to prevent impacts?

A full -10 is complete invisibility so in cases where you don't want that ("I want the car to swerve, but not to know what it served around") would you need Variable to apply just a -9?
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:45 AM   #16
awesomenessofme1
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Invisibility

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
A full -10 is complete invisibility so in cases where you don't want that ("I want the car to swerve, but not to know what it served around") would you need Variable to apply just a -9?
I believe this question came up in the past, and the answer is that noncombat abilities do not require Variable to change the level.
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:59 AM   #17
Plane
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Invisibility

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Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
I believe this question came up in the past, and the answer is that noncombat abilities do not require Variable to change the level.
P59 uses it for Mana Enhancer and Mana Damper (and requires Switchable for Variable) as I think switchable alone is all-or-nothing for level 2+ where you must use the max level.
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:06 PM   #18
Not another shrubbery
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Invisibility

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
What have you done with Invisibility?
It or Insubstantiality was our go-to advantage for skulks, I would tweak those two advantages to get different flavors of spirits.
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:48 PM   #19
awesomenessofme1
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Invisibility

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
P59 uses it for Mana Enhancer and Mana Damper (and requires Switchable for Variable) as I think switchable alone is all-or-nothing for level 2+ where you must use the max level.
Well, yes, but I'd hardly use that as a general benchmark. Switchable usually costs +10%, not +100%. Being able to switch or fine-tune those specific abilities is a lot more useful than most.
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:33 PM   #20
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Invisibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
A
Obscure 10 (Vision; Defensive, +50%; Stealthy, +100%; Selective Area, +20%; Extended, Infra-Red, +20%; Extended, Ultraviolet, +20%; Extended Low-Band, +30%; Extended High-Band, +30%) [74] should be, for all intent and purpose, equal or better than invisibility.
How do you see? Does Defensive make that possible?
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