03-05-2021, 06:11 PM | #11 | |||
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: [DF] Spellcasting in Heavy Gear
As far as "why even HOLD much less POINT the Wand of Fireball" goes (since apparently you can shoot fireballs by wearing an enchanted object which casts spells around your neck) I'd go with how that would influence the Innate Attack skill used to actually target with it:
You could perhaps in theory wield a wand of Fireball by clutching it your elbow and use shoulder/torso movements to clumsily orient it at a target... guessing that would be beyond the -6 to DX for Ham-Fisted 2 [-10] though. Even the guy with the worst hand coordination still probably has better "aiming with object in hand" coordination than "aiming with object in elbow" coordination. Ham-Fisted fine motor skills like aiming guns (and probably casting spells) are more complex than grappling so it likely 't merely be the -4 for "crook of one arm" used on MA116's box. You might use that just to grab a gun/wand in the first place, but no to actually USE it. MA116's -4 assumes a 2H skill, so -4 for crook is instead of the -2 for 1H. So one might view that as "an extra -2 to operating with one hand" or "double the penalty for operating with one hand". The problem with the latter is there's no penalty for stuff that's 1H to begin with (like a mage tossing a fireball) so I'm thinking -2, but for fine work we should assume a "Ham-Fisted 2" baseline to apply that to, so we don't have weird situations like "more agile with elbows than hands". Ham-Fisted also applies atop "Off-Hand" penalties, where -6 and -4 total -10, so fine work aiming guns/wands with your elbow could maybe be -12 ? Grappling tends to use half the penalties (at least for hit locations) as fine-tuned striking, so maybe that "extra -2" should be an "extra -4" for fine work? In which case you get -14. You're -2 to DX for grappling with legs, so doubling that to an extra -4 to DX for "aiming the Wand of Fireball held in my bent knee at the dragon" (total -18) also sounds about right, to hazard a guess. Could probably allow some kind of special niche skills for people who train to aim guns/wands in this weird way like a technique to buy off up to half of either -4 penalty. Quote:
Pg 113 of Low-Tech talks about guiges: they're worn on neck (hands-free: but can't be used for a Bash or Rush) when introducing new rules for bucklers (-1 rush dmg) and shields (-1 feint) LT114 standard "Shield" talks about "held in place with arm straps" but doesn't really go into detail about handles. To cover "it's strapped to my arm like a Shield but also has a handle like a Buckler" I could see maybe it being best of both worlds to House Rule ignoring both of the new penalties: no -1 to Shield Rush damage like Bucklers suffer (as of LT) and also no -1 to Feint like Shields suffer (as of LT) so long as both requirements are met. If the straps break, you'd suddenly suffer that -1 Shield Rush damage as you relied on your wrist stability... if you let go and relied purely on the forearm-straps then you'd get the -1 to feint. - - Hands vs Hands-free shield use is covered on Low-Tech Companion 2: Weapons pg 19 under "Advanced Guide Use" where if a shield is strapped to your neck you're -3 to block relying on neck strap alone (doesn't seem to affect DB) and you ignore the -3 if you opt to use your hand to grab the shield to assist the neck strap in controlling it. Guige shielding is "Ungainly" preventing using your arms on the side it's held though. Nothing about legs though, so someone like Batman (perhaps using Guige-esque Cloak rules since his thick heavy cape is strapped to his neck like a guige) can still throw kicks even though it prevents him punching in that direction. - - Pg 19 of LTC2 also talks about "Shield-Hand Weapons". Only small DB 1 "shield or buckler" is able to actually "ready" weapons held in the hand which is holding a shield simultaneously: and you're -2 to both skills. This equivalent treatment makes me think that the hand is occupied with non-bucklers too. For DB2+ skills you can still hold things in the shield hand, but not "ready" them. You can carry around a pair of javelins in the hand clutching the handle of your DB3 tower shield but not actually stab with them unless some kind of "Akimbo" perk were to allow it (seems reasonable) There's no -2 to shield skill if you're merely holding unready weapons, even though that could probably get awkward after a while: your hand would be fuller and more open after all. I'm guessing for the DB2+ that's something like the shield wraps around so you can't make stabs and so on with a knife. I'm not sure if it would cause problems clutching a wand so long as the wand didn't need a direct line of attack to a target (like with Wand of Fireball) such as if it were merely a "Regular Spell" cast by a wand. You're basically just using a bracelet that can't hold on so you need to hold it. Quote:
1) must have one of 3 forms of Injury Tolerance: Unliving, Homogenous (stick) or non-Swarm Diffuse (net)Kind of wondering if instead of things being 0pt feature immune to 2 damage types we should just give things not meant to be damaged by them some kind of Cosmic Injury Tolerance (Damage Reduction) to Toxic/Fatigue damage worked into a metatrait. Quote:
The benefit of "all my eggs aren't in one basket" for allowing 2 power items in DF would be offset by using the standard "I can only use one powerstone/manastone at a time" policy. |
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03-05-2021, 06:16 PM | #12 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: [DF] Spellcasting in Heavy Gear
I've always assumed that a wand or staff, as long as it's enchanted with the Staff spell, can be used to gesture with. How else do you channel spells through a staff for that sweet range extension, after all?
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03-05-2021, 06:23 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [DF] Spellcasting in Heavy Gear
Had what completely off limits? The only referent that seems to make sense for "it" is casting gestures, but your quotes say nothing about that.
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03-05-2021, 06:56 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: [DF] Spellcasting in Heavy Gear
sorry I meant wielding items, I figure the complexity of wielding a weapon is probably close to the complexity of magic gestures
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03-05-2021, 10:19 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Nov 2016
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Re: [DF] Spellcasting in Heavy Gear
What is the system of your choice?
The power items’ nature and potential will depend on the magic system of your choice. For example, if you pick RPM (assuming it is allowed), it could be about power items and gestures, or maybe either about the item or the gestures, or even neither of these and so on. Sometimes power items are tools that simply grant you with an energy reserve to cast more magic (e.g. a ring or necklace). In other occasions, a power item is a blessed charm that helps you preparing or launching a spell with a certain bonus. RPM’s Grimoires are power items in the sense they help you improve your spell casting prowess, but the magic does not come out from them when you activate the spell. The shield is a good choice when it comes to having a defense bonus. Alternatively, you could train your mage at fighting with the staff. Now you have a weapon with an enhanced parry that also works as your power item. For the matter of gestures in magic, you could the take akimbo and the unusual training perks (the latter to avoid taking weapon master, for akimbo).
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03-06-2021, 09:53 AM | #16 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: [DF] Spellcasting in Heavy Gear
Dungeon Fantasy, Standard magic system, 125 points. I believe you are aware of the relevant game...
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03-06-2021, 06:52 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Nov 2016
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Re: [DF] Spellcasting in Heavy Gear
That being the case, you could have your character learn the perks I suggested before, plus a costly power item acquired as a signature gear (that is more cost effective than buying an energy reserve).
So, take the 5 the five points of quirks and cash them for $ 500 each, reduce your character’s value from 125 to 120 and get the costly staff. A $ 2,500 will yield 12 FP, once you designate it as your power item. You may inject more $ from your starting $ budget to buy an even better power item. What matters in the FP sense, is the item's worth. However, I wouldn’t buy common diamonds for my power item. Rhetorically speaking, if it was a staff you could make it fine or meteoric, which yields benefits beyond the cost-effective-FP. Finally, if you also buy the weapon bond perk, you will have a +1 to skill whenever your staff is involved; in other words, that might include melee combat AND spells fueled by your power item. Armor sounds good, but it’s heavy (it slows you down) and its job is getting broken instead of you… also you can’t buy a weapon bond for armor.
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03-07-2021, 03:29 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: [DF] Spellcasting in Heavy Gear
i always figured weapon bond was to hit with weapons, getting that bonus to spells cast through them would be pretty decent but which page mentions that?
Also wondering with power items: if you start out with some 50 dollar staff and pay 1 dollar to put 1 fp into it, next time you visit down if you want to pump it full of 2 fp, can you just buy some gems and attach them to the staff to make it worth more money so it's storage capacity automatically upgrades? Manastone sometimes glitches and destroys items you're charging so I'm guessing in the world of Dungeon Fantasy there's a lot of Stable Casting enhancements on Magery combined with Luck floating around to prevent that since recharge-in-town never seems to encounter that risk. |
03-07-2021, 05:15 PM | #19 | |||
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: [DF] Spellcasting in Heavy Gear
Quote:
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As a bonus answer: If your weapon counts as a Staff, you can use it not only to gesture, but also to reduce distance to your subject. With Regular spells, this is like a free (in terms of points) +1 or +2 to skill. That's the single biggest reason to carry such an item. And no, it doesn't matter if your Staff item is your power item.
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03-07-2021, 07:00 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Re: [DF] Spellcasting in Heavy Gear
Quote:
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