07-09-2019, 10:42 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
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Re: two rules questions about entrenchments
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Though something for Drew: the Battle Box rules need errata. - 15.03.5: Entrenchments may not be built within a Revetment - 15.04.7: Entrenchments may be built within a Revetment
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Andy Mull MIB Agent #0460 Ogre 134th Battalion Lancaster, PA Imgur: https://agent0460.imgur.com/ Last edited by TheAmishStig; 07-09-2019 at 10:43 AM. Reason: Formatting |
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07-09-2019, 02:29 PM | #12 |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: two rules questions about entrenchments
Entrenchments, as the rules yet again clearly state, can be built by combat engineer infantry. But that is beside the point. If you're trying to simulate winkling out infantry from reinforced urban positions, use the "non-nuclear combat" rules along with those for fortified buildings.
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07-09-2019, 02:35 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
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Re: two rules questions about entrenchments
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Entrenchments are a regular sapper task, but I don't think revetments are. In the battle box PDF they're listed as Vulcan tasks that require 2 (small) and 4 (large) drones, respectively.
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Andy Mull MIB Agent #0460 Ogre 134th Battalion Lancaster, PA Imgur: https://agent0460.imgur.com/ |
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07-09-2019, 04:48 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Tokyo
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Re: two rules questions about entrenchments
@TheAmishStig The most current battlefields rules are aligned correctly between 15.03.5 and 15.04.7 that entrenchments may not be built within a revetment. Indeed revetments do require a Vulcan which is why (as above) I'm not inclined to use them.
As for natural features like dunes, were I doing to do a custom map again that would be an excellent suggestion, could easily be a variation on Hills/Mountains like I did before. Here however I want to do something with existing maps/playmats. As such to me the idea of dunes or previously existing revetments doesnt really "work" for say the big cluster of Town hexes in M1 or the various clusters of Town hexes in S2, etc. @ColBosch if by "non-nuclear combat" you mean "no cruise missiles" I wholeheartedly agree. I tend to never use those in my games anyway. As for fortified buildings, looking through 11.00 again, certainly multiple buildings may be placed in single hexes. If the infantry are in a hardened building of some type, are you assuming spillover like 7.12.3/13.01.2? (with the qualifier of 8.04 regarding overruns?) If so what about 11.04 "buildings themselves do not suffer from spillover fire when other targets in their hex are attacked." If the infantry are in a hardened building and assuming they get the 3X defense bonus for the Town hex, the hardened building itself confers no extra protection for the infantry and so I'm not seeing how that serves intent here. I'm not making an intentional argument with you and appreciate your help of trying to figure this out with existing rules, perhaps I am not understanding you due to not enough coffee or not being very smart. |
07-09-2019, 06:17 PM | #15 | |
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
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Re: two rules questions about entrenchments
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I'm trying to remember what book it's in, but he's talking about for non-nuclear is a special case rule for those situations where one or both sides are using lower-yield weapons to try to avoid collateral damage.
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Andy Mull MIB Agent #0460 Ogre 134th Battalion Lancaster, PA Imgur: https://agent0460.imgur.com/ |
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07-10-2019, 07:42 AM | #16 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheltenham, PA
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Re: two rules questions about entrenchments
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Joshua Megerman, SJGames MIB #5273 - Ogre AI Testing Division |
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07-10-2019, 08:01 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Tokyo
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Re: two rules questions about entrenchments
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Not to count my chickens before they hatch (there's more to this scenario idea than I've mentioned here) but if this thing develops well using your idea and is accepted for a next potential Ogrezine, we might have to work out some kind of formal permission? |
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07-10-2019, 08:42 AM | #18 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheltenham, PA
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Re: two rules questions about entrenchments
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As for permission, I don't think so. The rules are posted in the Ogrezine article making them available at the very least by reference, and I'm sure Drew & co. would work with you regarding how much of them could/should/would be reprinted in your article. Plus, IIRC, Steve himself rewrote and simplified my original non-nuclear rules even if he didn't take any credit for them. So as far as I'm concerned, I have no issues with you or anyone else using them however you like so long as SJG doesn't have any problem with it.
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Joshua Megerman, SJGames MIB #5273 - Ogre AI Testing Division |
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07-10-2019, 09:13 AM | #19 | |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Tokyo
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Re: two rules questions about entrenchments
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Anyway if this one turns out good after I test it out a few different ways I'll let Drew & Co. decide how to handle quote/reprint questions and if non-nuke is used of course credit you for the idea. |
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07-10-2019, 09:22 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheltenham, PA
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Re: two rules questions about entrenchments
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Joshua Megerman, SJGames MIB #5273 - Ogre AI Testing Division |
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