Fantasy and/vs DF

[Snargash Moonclaw]

Okay, I know I've seen some mention of this in other threads but I can't locate any relevant ones at this point. I'm planning on using primarily Fantasy material (with MA and various magic/powers/etc. for the relevant specific aspects) and I'm wondering how much/little the DF material fits or conflicts with that. Scanning through the four volumes one of the main things I'm wanting to use is equipment which shouldn't pose any significant conflicts, but I'm not so sure about any of the templates, etc. Where and how do the two sources agree and/or conflict?

[Harald387]

Some of the equipment is going to go seamlessly into most fantasy settings. Others may strain realism too far - ie, Dwarven Weapons, (Dwarven Nunchaku? Dwarven *Whips*?), Dragonhide or Orichalcum on the open market, etc.

The character templates, at 250 points, I would find crippled in a fantasy game that wasn't Dungeon Fantasy. Another 50 (or more) points in social skills, everyman skills (area knowledge, savoir-faire, and heraldry are like this in many fantasy worlds), and social advantages (contacts, patrons, allies, etc, etc) would be safely applied to just about any of them.

The racial templates are all generally underpriced for a serious fantasy campaign. Many of the races should have varying levels of Extended Lifespan or even Unaging; these things are handwaved in Dungeon Fantasy. The Elven and Dwarven racial talents can also be a bit unbalancing. In general, I'd go with the racial templates from Banestorm or the Basic Set over those in Dungeon Fantasy.

[vicky_molokh]

I'm intending to use the Dwarven modifier as a rather expensive weapon enchantment in CO. I guess it'll be popular but problematic due to price (and eating up one of two enchantment slots on a kusari). In fact, I'm picking some of the equipment-related ideas from DF rather liberally.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Harald387

<snip>Many of the races should have varying levels of Extended Lifespan or even Unaging;<snip>

I'm with Pee Kitty on this one. It shouldn't be worth so much to be able to play a character that will live a very long time unless that ability is significant in game. Unless I'm running a game that stretches over tens or hundreds of years, Unaging or Extended Lifespan should be quirk-level.

[Harald387]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

I'm with Pee Kitty on this one. It shouldn't be worth so much to be able to play a character that will live a very long time unless that ability is significant in game. Unless I'm running a game that stretches over tens or hundreds of years, Unaging or Extended Lifespan should be quirk-level.

Whether it's RAW pricing or no, they should probably at least be on there.

[GnomesofZurich]

Originally Posted by Harald387

Whether it's RAW pricing or no, they should probably at least be on there.

Perhaps as a 0 point feature; unless I was running a rather unusual campaign, I would subscribe to the pricing suggested by Rev. Pee Kitty (1 point each for Extended Lifespan and Longevity, 5 points for Unaging).

I suspect that in most campaigns, advantages that extend your lifespan don't really come into play except for flavour purposes. Unaging might be usable as defense against aging attacks, or as an unusual background to justify an unusually broad education or very high skill level, but otherwise these traits don't mean a whole lot.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

Originally Posted by Harald387

The character templates, at 250 points, I would find crippled in a fantasy game that wasn't Dungeon Fantasy. Another 50 (or more) points in social skills, everyman skills (area knowledge, savoir-faire, and heraldry are like this in many fantasy worlds), and social advantages (contacts, patrons, allies, etc, etc) would be safely applied to just about any of them.

Are you saying that the templates are poorly constructed, or that they should be built at about 300 pts with some of the traits added to what's already there?

I don't actually plan to use any of them since the campaign is not hack n slash dungeoneering - one of the reasons for switching from DnD is the emphasis on combat abilities at the expense of all others - even for classes that are "equally skilled in the arts of combat and diplomacy" - who still only receive combat abilities. . . The campaign will have a lot more social and intrigue elements which GURPS skill set reflects well. I'm also looking at starting characters at 150 pts - they've just reached (racial) maturity and are starting out - with a lot of room to grow. I'm trying to keep racial templates and regional (environmental/cultural) lens costs low - combined I wouldn't want them over 50 pts, and any "profession" (class) template options and 50 points as well - encouraging character customization. Since I'm just starting to work on the templates I may find that a little low - at least for race and region. The profession templates are simply to jump start character creation, tho' I will probably have some specific templates representing training from various orders - not just MA styles, but healer's orders, specific thieves and assassins guilds, churches, etc. - where the institution mandates a specific training regimen/curriculum.

DF is definately (and openly) munchkin oriented, which is a gaming style I generally avoid (outside of games like H.O.L. and Paranoia). Paring down some of the templates to bare-bones may work for what I have in mind though. I'm kind of wondering about some of the other material being over-powered outside of DF - spells and powers, etc. as written vs. canon - if other material is usable as is or would also need paring back - or outright break some facet compared to canon.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by Snargash Moonclaw

Are you saying that the templates are poorly constructed, or that they should be built at about 300 pts with some of the traits added to what's already there?

Neither is really the case. The DF templates are focused on beating the crap out of monsters, at the expense of other abilities. They also emphasize niche protection. They're fine if you're trying to simulate old school D&D, or even Conan, Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser, etc. But if you want characters useful outside a dungeon/arena setting, you'd need to either add points for noncombat abilities or just make your own templates. If you're interested in intrigue, etc you might take a look at GURPS Mysteries.

- DW

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Snargash Moonclaw

DF is definately (and openly) munchkin oriented, which is a gaming style I generally avoid (outside of games like H.O.L. and Paranoia). Paring down some of the templates to bare-bones may work for what I have in mind though. I'm kind of wondering about some of the other material being over-powered outside of DF - spells and powers, etc. as written vs. canon - if other material is usable as is or would also need paring back - or outright break some facet compared to canon.

The spells and powers are canon - or at least they are built using the standard rules. The Chi and Divine abilities are built as standard Powers. Whether or not they fit into your campaign largely depends on whether you like the way they're designed (e.g. if you don't like the whole concept of Chi then the Chi Powers aren't going to suit you).

The only thing that really differentiates the spells is that there is built in niche protection - only Clerics may learn healing spells, only Druids may learn Animal & Plant spells. Otherwise they just use the standard rules for standard Magery and Power Investiture spells, with a few minor tweaks to a few spells.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

Thanks everyone. As I try to GURPSize my campaign setting I'm struggling with the system's greatest strength and weakness - and suffering Ultimate Buffet Overload Syndrome: you just can't use everything. . . However, I'm looking at the "adventuring profession" as encompassing a very broad spectrum of activities and behaviors which no one in their right mind would dream of engaging in. I like the variety of paranormal abilities/practices/methodologies but I'm still pouring over those to work out implementations which each have their strengths and weaknesses. Niche protection isn't as essential to campaign mechanics since there is a lot more room to identify character niches outside of dungeon bloodshed and mayhem. (Many of them far more risky as well.) Sifting through all of the possibilities is both daunting and time consuming so I appreciate the help.