11-21-2019, 03:37 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
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My unit calculator is wrong
My unit calculator keeps suggesting that the SHVY is 2.5 armor units and the Missile Tank needs Hvy Tank style terrain adjustments (at MA 2).
This is clearly incorrect because these tweaks would unbalance the game. I just can't seem to find the scenario that these changes break. Can you please point me towards some testing that shows how unbalanced these changes would be?
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-HJC |
11-21-2019, 11:24 PM | #2 | |
Ogre Line Editor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
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Re: My unit calculator is wrong
Quote:
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GranitePenguin Ogre Line Editor Last edited by GranitePenguin; 11-21-2019 at 11:27 PM. Reason: added link |
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11-22-2019, 09:39 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheltenham, PA
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Re: My unit calculator is wrong
Quote:
Essentially I'm asking, what's the problem you're trying to solve, other than that the value isn't exactly 6VP as currently written?
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Joshua Megerman, SJGames MIB #5273 - Ogre AI Testing Division |
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11-22-2019, 10:12 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minnesota
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Re: My unit calculator is wrong
Quote:
The one line summary: The unit calculator isn't broken. The current SHVY cost is broken. |
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11-22-2019, 10:40 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
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Re: My unit calculator is wrong
One of the reasons to give the Missile Tank improved mobility is to deal with SHVY in woods.
Steve Jackson asked some buffoon if the D5 SHVY was okay, and the incorrect hand calculation that waved that through can be found in the OGRE Book. (Henry doesn't add up, apparently.)
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-HJC |
11-24-2019, 06:08 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Dec 2016
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Re: My unit calculator is wrong
I've played many many games for over a year now with the SHVY at 2.5AU at conventions with a wide pool of players and that has been working fine in different scenarios and different force builds by different players.
I'm confident that is the right price and not influenced by a local meta.
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All-Purpose Gaming Blog: Goblinhall |
11-24-2019, 06:15 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Dec 2016
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Re: My unit calculator is wrong
I've seen the maths, but have been hesitant to change the MSL cost. We've discussed it periodically with the core group of local players, and the general consensus among us keeps coming back to the fact that it works well enough as is.
It's a support tank, and used as such in small numbers to support the front line tanks, no one has felt like they were bad buys at the current cost. Folks haven't been shying away from buying them to back up the line. Also discussed is that it is only one of two vehicles that use the Light Tracked terrain column, and it would seem weird for the LT to have a column just for itself.
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All-Purpose Gaming Blog: Goblinhall |
12-17-2019, 12:07 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hex G1-1508
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Re: My unit calculator is wrong
Quote:
I've never liked SHVYs from the moment they were introduced. Not for game-breaking reasons (though that is a welcome confirmation of my gut feeling), but because they violate a key element of Ogre aesthetics: armor units are one shotters, both shooting and being killed, while Ogres are multishotters that can divide their fire and have to be chipped away at. SHVYs attempt to be both fish and flesh and simply don't feel right to me. There's also an element of wanting to fill out a conceptual system simply because the space "seems" to be there: I mean that if you have a heavy tank, you must also have a light and a medium, and a superheavy. Like in Car Wars they invented light, heavy and finally even medium lasers because there was a stat gap that "needed" to be filled. I accept light tanks and the fan-designed mediums but superheavies I reject. |
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