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Old 01-24-2018, 11:53 AM   #11
chandley
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Double-Jointed (Flexibility 2) vs. Extra-Flexible Arms (all of them)?

The ability to use your body parts regardless of orientation (critically, in combat for parrying and attacking) appears to be worth something like 6 or 7 points. +3 to the set of skills Flexibility and DJ enhance (including a conditional boost to wrestling and a very conditional penalty relief) is 5 points. +5 and the orientation ignoring ability is 15.

Perhaps we make Flexibility _just_ the bonuses, and leveled (with a max of 2 levels) worth 5 points per level. +3 per level.

Double-Jointed breaks out as its own advantage, worth 5 - 10 points. It only includes the "may bend any way" and the resultant advantages to parry, block, and attack.

This leads to Double-Joined (One Arm Only -40%) and (Arms -20%). Cutting out the ability to parry and attack with your legs, teeth, or striker (if you have one) to any orientation is not a huge limitation, hence the -20%.

Dump Extra-Flexible as an enhancement to arms completely.

I am tempted to make DJ 10 points. It IS useful even on it's own, and 5 points seems to cheap next to Ambidexterity. But I'm not married to the number.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:56 AM   #12
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Double-Jointed (Flexibility 2) vs. Extra-Flexible Arms (all of them)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chandley View Post
The ability to use your body parts regardless of orientation (critically, in combat for parrying and attacking) appears to be worth something like 6 or 7 points. +3 to the set of skills Flexibility and DJ enhance (including a conditional boost to wrestling and a very conditional penalty relief) is 5 points. +5 and the orientation ignoring ability is 15.

Perhaps we make Flexibility _just_ the bonuses, and leveled (with a max of 2 levels) worth 5 points per level. +3 per level.

Double-Jointed breaks out as its own advantage, worth 5 - 10 points. It only includes the "may bend any way" and the resultant advantages to parry, block, and attack.

This leads to Double-Joined (One Arm Only -40%) and (Arms -20%). Cutting out the ability to parry and attack with your legs, teeth, or striker (if you have one) to any orientation is not a huge limitation, hence the -20%.

Dump Extra-Flexible as an enhancement to arms completely.

I am tempted to make DJ 10 points. It IS useful even on it's own, and 5 points seems to cheap next to Ambidexterity. But I'm not married to the number.
If Double-Jointed represents a cinematic contortionist and Extra-Flexible arms represents tentacles, then the latter is clearly better than the former, because even movie contortionists have limb bones.
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Old 01-24-2018, 12:08 PM   #13
chandley
 
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Default Re: Double-Jointed (Flexibility 2) vs. Extra-Flexible Arms (all of them)?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
If Double-Jointed represents a cinematic contortionist and Extra-Flexible arms represents tentacles, then the latter is clearly better than the former, because even movie contortionists have limb bones.
I think just base-line Flexible represents a contortionist. Along with the Escape skill. Double-Jointed goes quite a bit further. Or so I assume, having never seen a contortionist launch combat quick strikes to any orientation. It's all been rather slow and considered twisting.

As for the limb bones thing, that speaks to the feature of EF arms that they can't be Locked, only Wrenched. Which I would add as a perk. Tentacles [1], say.
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Double-Jointed (Flexibility 2) vs. Extra-Flexible Arms (all of them)?

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Originally Posted by chandley View Post
I think just base-line Flexible represents a contortionist. Along with the Escape skill. Double-Jointed goes quite a bit further. Or so I assume, having never seen a contortionist launch combat quick strikes to any orientation. It's all been rather slow and considered twisting.

As for the limb bones thing, that speaks to the feature of EF arms that they can't be Locked, only Wrenched. Which I would add as a perk. Tentacles [1], say.
Can a character with double jointed reach through a u-bend to manipulate something on the other side?
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:40 PM   #15
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Default Re: Double-Jointed (Flexibility 2) vs. Extra-Flexible Arms (all of them)?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Can a character with double jointed reach through a u-bend to manipulate something on the other side?
The Vermiform metatrait does not include any additional relevant features beyond double-jointed, so it's apparently sufficient to allow bending like a snake.
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