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Old 02-18-2016, 08:33 PM   #1
zoncxs
 
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Default Ritual Path Words of Powerful Sorcery

Hello all!

Lately I have been thinking about writing up a new magic system for a new setting I want to hash out. I got very little done due to me staring blankly at my screen every time I try to write some of it down.

I want something that marries RPM and Sorcery and Words of Power (WoP). The path skills would be the Verbs and the nouns would be the WoP. All the WoP can be divided up into several Realms. It would use Energy accumulation when casting spells not known (That is to say improvised). You can attempt to use the Word of Power without a filter (straight usage) or you can use a Verb path for a specific effect. Known spells are bought as an A.A. to the WoP associated with it. So if I want to learn "Flame Jet" (burning attack with jet) Then I would buy it as an A.A. to "Word of Power, Fire". Known spells requires 2 of FP, Chanting, or Gestures.

Now, My problem is coming up with a list of WoP and Realms.


For Realms I thought this would be good:

Energy
Matter
Mind
Space
Time
Life and Death


and for Words of Power:



Body

Distance
Boundaries

Thought

Earth
Sand
Stone
Metal
Soil
Dirt

Water
Ice
Acid

Weather
Lightning
Hurricane
Mist
Rain
Snow
Tornado

Air

Fire
Light and Darkness
Magma
Cold
Heat

Plant
Wood
Grass
Flowers
Poison

Animal
Mammal
Lizard
Amphibian
Avian




Verb Paths:

Communicate (IQ/VH)
Control (IQ/VH)
Create (IQ/VH)
Destroy (IQ/VH)
Heal (IQ/H)
Move (IQ/H)
Protect (IQ/H)
Strengthen (IQ/H)
Sense (IQ/A)
Transform (IQ/VH)
Weaken (IQ/H)

Last edited by zoncxs; 02-26-2016 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 02-19-2016, 01:58 AM   #2
T.K.
 
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Default Re: Ritual Path Words of Powerful Sorcery

Hey...

Sincerely, I believe it would immensely help you if you first decided how magic works into your setting then flash out the system to accomodate that.

So far, seems like you want a new magic system just because you want a new magic system for the sake of it.

Your correlations don't make sense, as well:

Verbs are called as such beacuse they command actions to nouns. So far you have, for example, "Energy" as a verb and "Fire" as a noun... when Fire is basically a sub-type of energy...

You're trying to say "Energy Energy!" which basically don't shape into an effect.

Verbs should be, for example, Control, Create, Modify and nouns could either be broad as "Energy" or narrower as "Fire" thus you could shape effects building a verb+noun like "Control+Energy" or "Create+Fire", as examples.

Words of Power is a much broader correlation system, in that each WoP includes what would correlate to both verbs AND nouns, allowing the full build up of an effect correlating to that WoP, for example:

WoP: Earth - Includes, but not limited to, Control, Create, Modify, Negate WHEN refering to Earth and its subtypes (which are setting dependant) like Metal, Minerals...

OR

WoP: Matter - Includes, but not limited to, Control, Create, Modify, Negate WHEN refering to Matter and all subtypes (which is also setting dependant) like Earth, Plastic, Bodies, Metal...

Sincerely, you should define what correlations magic require in your setting and what cost you want casters to pay for their effects (FP, time, negative mods...) and build the system around that if you truly believe the current existing ones don't suit your needs (which I don't believe to be the case).

IMO, a good magic system should be relatively easy to understand and learn, fast to use in game and allow a broad range of depth to allow inventive use and customization by players.
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Old 02-19-2016, 06:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: Ritual Path Words of Powerful Sorcery

If you want fire and energy to be different things, you might have a system of major and minor nouns, so that you could learn "fire" more easily that "energy" - fire might be an aspect of energy however, so that a master of energy can wield fire, sound, light, kinesis &c. - all of which are also nouns in their own right.
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Old 02-19-2016, 10:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: Ritual Path Words of Powerful Sorcery

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
For Realms I thought this would be good:

Matter
Energy
Time
Space
Matter, Energy, and Space are all fine realms if you set limits on what is achievable. For example, if you don't want Space to be used to inflict direct damage you can rule that Space magic won't work on regions containing solid objects at the time of casting. That also gets rid of a lot of headaches that Space compression can cause.

I don't like Time as a realm. Time can be very abusive if used intelligently. And this problem becomes even worse if you allow actual time travel. I would keep Time as a forbidden realm, though.

If you like the idea of there being four realms, here are a few suggestions for replacements. Life would imply that there is something about living things - probably complexity - that makes controlling them by Matter/Energy alone impossible. Mind would be another good choice because the mind is traditionally nonphysical. Separating minds from Matter or Energy also helps prevent those realms from becoming broken. Self would be a strange realm but would be fitting for settings where casting magic on yourself is difficult.

Your WoP seem to be based on classical concepts of science. A similar flavor can be achieved using a short realms list: Fire/Heat, Water/Ice, Earth/Metal, Wind/Lightning, Mind, Distance, and Life. Life can be removed if you want healing to be a difficult task requiring mastery of the material elements. Using these realms will be simpler and easier to represent on a character sheet than your hybrid realms/WoP approach.

Last edited by Emerald Cat; 02-19-2016 at 10:43 AM. Reason: There vs. their
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Old 02-19-2016, 10:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: Ritual Path Words of Powerful Sorcery

Spirit/Matter/Energy/Space might work...
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:13 AM   #6
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Default Re: Ritual Path Words of Powerful Sorcery

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
Of course my Ideal situation would be to have at least 6 or at most 12 realms and 360 Words of Power because I plan to use the Decans.
I'd start with the 36 decans, divide them into groups for the realms, and have a world of power for each of them. The decan structure allows you to justify almost any scheme with a bit of effort.

Words of Power in Thaumatology are very dangerous and hard to control. You may want to tone them down a lot, since you seem to be implying that every single magical working will require using one, along with a verb from the RPM path list.
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: Ritual Path Words of Powerful Sorcery

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Words of Power in Thaumatology are very dangerous and hard to control. You may want to tone them down a lot, since you seem to be implying that every single magical working will require using one, along with a verb from the RPM path list.
That was my first thought when looking at the thread title as well, but it looks like the OP had something more like noun/verb magic in mind...
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Old 02-20-2016, 12:13 AM   #8
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Default Re: Ritual Path Words of Powerful Sorcery

Lots to respond to! lets get cracking...


Quote:
Originally Posted by T.K. View Post
Hey...

Sincerely, I believe it would immensely help you if you first decided how magic works into your setting then flesh out the system to accommodate that.

So far, seems like you want a new magic system just because you want a new magic system for the sake of it.
Yes, I do want a new system just to have one :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.K. View Post
Your correlations don't make sense, as well:

Verbs are called as such beacuse they command actions to nouns. So far you have, for example, "Energy" as a verb and "Fire" as a noun... when Fire is basically a sub-type of energy...
On the contrary, I do not have "Energy" as a verb, I don't have anything listed as a verb in my OP. "Energy" is listed as a Realm.

Here is what I have for Verbs:
Create
Destroy
Weaken
Control
Move
Heal
Strengthen
Protect
Sense
Communicate
Transform

I was thinking of keeping Communicate, Protect and Weaken as part of the Destroy, Strengthen and sense Verbs but I will keep them separate To keep in line with the Sephiroth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.K. View Post
Words of Power is a much broader correlation system, in that each WoP includes what would correlate to both verbs AND nouns, allowing the full build up of an effect correlating to that WoP...
Correct, the reason for adding the Paths and Verbs is to allow a caster more control over what is happening. When using the Paths and verbs you are rolling to gather energy for the effects, just like RPM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.K. View Post
IMO, a good magic system should be relatively easy to understand and learn, fast to use in game and allow a broad range of depth to allow inventive use and customization by players.
Correct! hopefully I will get to that point, but what we are trying to do right now is make a new "dish" from scratch. Its not going to look clean and neat till we had a few test runs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
If you want fire and energy to be different things, you might have a system of major and minor nouns, so that you could learn "fire" more easily that "energy" - fire might be an aspect of energy however, so that a master of energy can wield fire, sound, light, kinesis &c. - all of which are also nouns in their own right.
THIS, this is what I was trying to say. I want things to be in a tier level system where the higher levels encompass more. So for example:

Major : Energy
Minor: Fire, Air, Lightning, Cold, etc.


What I want to try and get is the "major nouns" as Realms, and the "Minor Nouns" as Words of Power with the "Path skills" the Verbs. You can study how to "Create" but unless you know somethings True Name (Word of power) then you can't do anything. Likewise, knowing somethings true name (Word of power) does not mean you have control, unless you get lucky you have no idea what will happen when you speak the word AND it might end up killing you in the process.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Cat View Post
Matter, Energy, and Space are all fine realms if you set limits on what is achievable. For example, if you don't want Space to be used to inflict direct damage you can rule that Space magic won't work on regions containing solid objects at the time of casting. That also gets rid of a lot of headaches that Space compression can cause.
True, But I think if I were to use it in a game then the Realms, the highest order and form of magic, would not be usable by the players. So The Realm of Space won't factor into a game unless we were going supers level (600+). I wouldn't mind the realm of space inflicting damage, warps in spacetime are real (GRAVITATIONAL WAVES!!!!!!!) so one aspect of Space Realm would be black-holes and warping and stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Cat View Post
I don't like Time as a realm. Time can be very abusive if used intelligently. And this problem becomes even worse if you allow actual time travel. I would keep Time as a forbidden realm, though.
Correct, but then how does Divination work? to time travel using what I am trying to make would require The word of power for Time and space and the usage of the Verbs Transform and Control. That would not be an easy trick to pull off! and it would require a lot of knowledge (game play) to acquire the True names of Space and Time :) in other words yes it would be forbidden.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Cat View Post
If you like the idea of there being four realms, here are a few suggestions for replacements. Life would imply that there is something about living things - probably complexity - that makes controlling them by Matter/Energy alone impossible. Mind would be another good choice because the mind is traditionally nonphysical. Separating minds from Matter or Energy also helps prevent those realms from becoming broken. Self would be a strange realm but would be fitting for settings where casting magic on yourself is difficult.
Nice, so we would have:

Energy
Matter
Mind
Space
Time
Life

yay 6!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Cat View Post
Your WoP seem to be based on classical concepts of science. A similar flavor can be achieved using a short realms list: Fire/Heat, Water/Ice, Earth/Metal, Wind/Lightning, Mind, Distance, and Life. Life can be removed if you want healing to be a difficult task requiring mastery of the material elements. Using these realms will be simpler and easier to represent on a character sheet than your hybrid realms/WoP approach.
true, but the realms themselves are mostly there to split up the words of power for order. For example: Fire/Heat, Wind/Lightning fall under Energy. Water/Ice, Earth/Metal fall under Matter etc. I am aiming for a "Tree" of sorts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
I'd start with the 36 decans, divide them into groups for the realms, and have a world of power for each of them. The decan structure allows you to justify almost any scheme with a bit of effort.
Now that is a plan!

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Words of Power in Thaumatology are very dangerous and hard to control. You may want to tone them down a lot, since you seem to be implying that every single magical working will require using one, along with a verb from the RPM path list.
I think I will not only require a Verb path skill to use Words of Power without going boom, but to also require a Focus like a staff or wand of hockey stick, something infused with the users essence and Magic to allow control. I don't know yet but we are getting close! I can smell it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
That was my first thought when looking at the thread title as well, but it looks like the OP had something more like noun/verb magic in mind...
The Words of Power will be the Nouns and the Verbs are Paths. So you were not too far off.


I will post an update soon and also add to the OP what I add... in the morning...
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Old 02-20-2016, 11:15 AM   #9
zoncxs
 
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Default Re: Ritual Path Words of Powerful Sorcery

I updated the OP. Now all I need are 36 WoP!

I got a few listed already, I might drop some to add more detail or something but I could use help in coming up with a complete list.

As for the Verbs, they are tied to the 11 Sephrioths, the 11th being "destroy" which players might not start with or even know about, in fact a game could literally be about learning all the Paths!

I might Drop the Realms in favor of placing those words into the WoP list, or not and just keep it as flavor, Its how the universe is divided up or something.
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Old 02-20-2016, 03:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ritual Path Words of Powerful Sorcery

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
For Realms I thought this would be good:

Energy
Matter
Mind
Space
Time
Life and Death
I like this realm list a lot better. Having 6 Realms rather than 4 is nice because it makes it easier for PC mages to differentiate themselves. A Death realm helps justify any undead in your setting. Eliminating necromancers would be impractical because they could masquerade as healers because Life and Death constitute a single realm.

I agree that having divination is weird without a Time realm. But I would limit Time to things like simple acceleration/deceleration without invoking the other realms. Effective chronomancers would thus be very multidisciplinary. Here is what I would have each realm enable as part of a Time spell:
  • Energy: creation of images/sounds for transtemporal communication (or lasers for a more offensive approach)
  • Matter: movement of physical objects through time
  • Mind: perception of other time periods, and required for time travel of sapient beings
  • Space: your working is no longer fixed to your present spatial location
  • Life/Death: required for moving living beings through time

Paradoxes and changes to history can become a real headache for the GM. Before implementing reliable time travel in your campaign, I'd check out the discussion of time travel mechanics and paradox resolution from GURPS: Infinite Worlds. This is a good book to get for advice on world building.
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