01-21-2016, 04:17 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Jun 2007
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SM-2 Reversed-Grip Situation
We have an odd situation bringing up lots of questions, all based around Reversed Grip. We're having a lot of trouble coming up with agreement and can't find much here to help. I'd love to hear if there is any consensus on any of these.
The situation is that player 1 and player 2 are in a cage that can sway. The cage is 1 yard across, so basically 1 hex. It is 3 yards tall, though. Player 1 has SM-2 and has a SM-2 halberd (using Low Tech Companion 2). Player 2 has SM0. Non-issues
I think everyone is doing a good job referencing things and making points, but it's not very clear in the rules. As this is between two players, it's that much more contentious. The GM is listening to the debate openly. But it would be helpful if there is any accepted consensus on any of this. Or maybe even just more opinions from others who know their GURPS rules well. Thanks for any help!!! |
01-21-2016, 04:55 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Behind You
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Re: SM-2 Reversed-Grip Situation
A blurb from Reverse Grip says "A reach 2 weapon functions as reach
1 for all purposes – half its length is in front of the wielder, the other half is behind him. Longer weapons are too awkward to reverse." This means it's a Reach 1 weapon for the purposes of negatives to close combat. All is italics, meaning there's no exception. It says that it uses an ice pick style attack. If I had to describe this with a reach two weapon I would say it's somewhat of a downward thrust. A SM2 character shouldn't fit in that cage at all. This means their largest dimension is > 3 yards. Not >= 3 yards. This would means they would probably have to be crouching or similar. The weapon itself would probably not be able to fit well either. In other words the SM2 person should be horribly penalized. I would take striking into close combat along with some sort of kneeling position at minimum for negatives. Swing attacks are probably not possible if I'd even allow the weapon to fight at all.
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01-21-2016, 05:06 AM | #3 |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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Re: SM-2 Reversed-Grip Situation
GodBeastX, you should probably re-read the OP. This is a negative SM here, and a weapon scaled down that much may just be effective in a cage. The real question is what kind of idiot doesn't take weapons away when they put people in cages?
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01-21-2016, 05:14 AM | #4 | |
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Re: SM-2 Reversed-Grip Situation
Quote:
So yeah, other than realizing I should be sleeping instead of reading the forums right now, I think the situation is grip for the small thing.
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01-21-2016, 06:37 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Re: SM-2 Reversed-Grip Situation
Since, as I'd mentioned, player 1 and player 2 agreed on the realistic use so we're OK on this one and we're using the same interpretation as you.
This question was just looking at the RAW. We know there is an exception. If you hold a reach 2 weapon in Reversed Grip it is reach 1. If you then change the grip to a normal grip, does it remain reach 1? This is, after all, one of the purposes: grip changes. I think we can all agree that it returns to reach 2. Similarly, I don't think anyone thinks you can fit it in a smaller sheath if you use Reversed Grip prior to sheathing it. So it is reach 1 for all purposes while continuing to use it in Reversed Grip. It seems like nitpicking, but that is because player 2's question is not about the reach 1 in RAW but about using Reversed Grip with CC technique at all. Back to player 2's point with RAW on this one. Player 2 wasn't debating -4 vs -8 (dealing with the reach) but the applicability at all. The CC technique says all of the rules above apply only for normal grip. It also says Reversed Grip is an alternative, meaning replacement for not potentially supplemental (and Kromm used this same terminology to specifically make that other case). So, sure, it's reach 1 for all purposes while in Reversed Grip, but RAW also states you can't use the CC technique rules with Reversed Grip twice, regardless of what its reach is. Player 2's question is what in RAW even allows you to use CC technique with Reversed Grip at all, not how much penalty would be assessed. Quote:
Thanks!!! |
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01-21-2016, 08:13 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Behind You
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Re: SM-2 Reversed-Grip Situation
Quote:
So for the intent of my explanation, look at the smaller creature as SM0 and the normal size as being SM2.
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01-21-2016, 09:24 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Re: SM-2 Reversed-Grip Situation
Oh. I get your way. That's a nice way to consider it. Generally it's much easier then because you can just look up what's in the book without scaling anything, assuming you're holding something sized for you. Then the SM-2 halberd would be looked at as a halberd, which with reach 3 cannot be held in Reversed Grip. Meanwhile, if we consider the SM-2 person trying to hold the SM0 dueling halberd in Reversed Grip, that would become a SM0 person trying to hold a SM+2 dueling halberd in Reversed Grip, and since a SM+2 dueling halberd has a reach of 3, this doesn't work, either. And, happily, the two are consistent.
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01-21-2016, 09:33 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Behind You
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Re: SM-2 Reversed-Grip Situation
You got it.
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