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11-16-2018, 05:09 PM | #11 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: Need help creating and pricing modifiers to make a Devil's Deal advantage
I agree it's an Affliction build. The Affliction itself has an accessibility limitation (requires a verbal agreement). The trait afflicted depends on the details. If the bound party just wants to abide by it, then it's a Vow. If something horrible happens to him if he doesn't then it's whatever Disadvantage corresponds to the horrible thing, with a mitigator limitation (keep my word about this one deal, something like -80%).
I don't think Mind Control is usually involved at all, though it could be if you are compelled to do idiotic stuff to try to keep the deal when it's actually impossible for some reason (as opposed to making a good faith effort and offering compensation if you fail, which would be how you would honorably behave if you had a Vow).
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11-16-2018, 06:39 PM | #12 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Need help creating and pricing modifiers to make a Devil's Deal advantage
So - who has the power in reality? What POWERS the power? Is it Divine? Is it simply a feature of nosy little demons/imps/cherubs/angels/Intelligent Squirrels? Is it a Deity based power?
Why not ask yourself what specifically is this, who has the ability to enforce the "Deal" and whether or not it is internal or external to the characters. Can it happen where a "Deal" is non-binding? In other words, can two people inside a pentagram make a deal and have it work? What happens if one is in a pentagram and the other is outside of it when they say "Deal"?a In the reality you're trying to build - it sounds like someone offers a deal, nothing happens unless someone accepts it. Now, here's a problem. "I would sell my teeth for a chance at that!" could invoke someone saying "DEAL!" right? Now, the other person who says "Deal" would say "you said chance, you didn't say how much of one" and the bargain is struck? To me, this seems largely to be a deity based affliction in which both parties suffer some effect unless the deal offered is consumated. If this is "automatic", it sounds like either an enemy or a patron that is always there (no roll required). It also sounds like the individual doing the affliction is not all too limited if the affliction can be far reaching or inconsequential. So, tell us MORE of what YOU think is involved before you go any further. *teasing grin* |
11-16-2018, 09:39 PM | #13 | |||||
Join Date: Nov 2018
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Re: Need help creating and pricing modifiers to make a Devil's Deal advantage
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What you have listed is a vague statement, the character saying it is making an exaggerated comment and as such cannot become binding. There is no offer being made to the other party. For this to become binding the demon would have to say something like "I could offer you that" in which if the other character then accepts the binding would occur and the demon could easily manipulate such a vague deal. The offer here being the demon saying "I could offer you that" instead of the vague statement from the character. An offer would be something directed at one of the two parties directly. An offer version of your example just requires it to be directed at the demon. "I would sell my teeth to you if you could get me a chance at that". Even if the character is joking here it is phrased as an offer. In this situation the demon could jump and say deal and catch the character in a binding deal. So yes deals can be forced, but only as a response to an offer; not a statement. Yes wordplay can happen (and is encouraged on the end of the demon). Hopefully that helps you get a better idea of what I'm going for. |
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11-16-2018, 10:08 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Need help creating and pricing modifiers to make a Devil's Deal advantage
So this "binding" only occurs when done with a specific individual or being.
So, what specifically is a demon in this universe? Is it a fallen angel? Is it a being from a realm other than that which humans inhabit? Are they believed in as Demonic, or are they "You made a deal with a demon? Right Mr. Jones, we have a nice comfortable padded room for you. Take these pills and everything will be all right Mr. Jones"? I guess what I'm getting at is that if they are powerful beings who aren't human, and they have a hierarchy they belong to, would this hierarchy be deemed "Demonic"? If so, then it implies that the power itself is demonic (if a common characteristic of all demons). If it is demonic, can it be countered by the opposing force that is anti-demonic? GURPS POWERS suggests that there are limitations to powers to the extent that they gain a -10% modifier for the cost. Are there areas in which the demon's powers are not extant? Can the binding/deal be resolved by appeal to a higher power? By the by Krillean - when I went to send you a private message or email, I noted that you don't have that enabled. :( My reason for asking is - if making a deal with a Demon can be done without the person knowing they were dealing with a demon, clearly, it can pass for human. Equally clearly, this is not the standard "Moral turpitude" or "Moral degenerate willingly offering something for which they know to be bad/evil/immoral. If the deal/binding can be countered in some way, then you'd invoke the -10% power discount for it being based on demonic power. Can a demon lose this power? Is it absolute? I'm trying not to draw upon a Judeo-Christian mythology here because I get the feeling it isn't strictly that. ROLEMASTER had the concept of Demons beyond the Pale. They're not demons as Christians might call them, but other-dimensional beings. Last edited by hal; 11-16-2018 at 10:10 PM. Reason: added comment |
11-16-2018, 10:37 PM | #15 | |||
Join Date: Nov 2018
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Re: Need help creating and pricing modifiers to make a Devil's Deal advantage
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Probably. The higher demons could probably take the power away and if there is an anti-demon force in the GM's world they would probably be able to negate the ability. |
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11-16-2018, 11:42 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Re: Need help creating and pricing modifiers to make a Devil's Deal advantage
I don't think that works due to resistance rolls automatically succeeding if you roll a 3 regardless of how large the penalty is. A way to do it is to use Super Luck to ensure either that the target fail to resist.
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11-17-2018, 10:05 AM | #17 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
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Re: Need help creating and pricing modifiers to make a Devil's Deal advantage
Actually, that's not a rule. People get confused on this, because a roll of 3 is always a success on an attack, regardless of penalty, but other rolls don't have that rule. If your resistance score is 2 or lower, you simply can't succeed on the resistance roll (though since an enemy still has to succeed on their roll in a Quick Contest of resistance, you can hope they fail the roll, or use Luck if you've got it to make that more likely).
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