Designing a Squad Insertion, Command And Support Aiborne Vehicle (SICASAV)

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

In what ways is it expected to push the limits of its maneuvering that necessitates such a high level of skill?

And how are they affording a billion-dollar aircraft (Not to mention the ground force and equipment, or the expense and weight of carrying all those extra engineers needed to maintain the craft), but couldn't spend a fraction of that money to hire a few decent flight crews?

Things the aircraft needs to be able to do:

Be a mobile base of operations, able to command a squad in all weather, even if contact with HQ is lost, bomb targets as small as a van moving at full speed with a direct hit, hack the most secure network with just a gizmo planted on it, defend itself against missiles and other aircraft, run without radar signature nor sound through the use of magic, insert troops through fast roping, HALO, and LALO jumps, hack military satellites and surveillance networks to be able to give real time tactical intel to the squad, EMP proof on top of that, and be able to operate even if cut from HQ.

How are they affording a billion dollar aircraft and a fighting force? Cutting edge medical technology and alchemical remedies sold on the open market (early to mid TL 9), cutting edge computer technology sold both to 1st world military forces and civilian markets (early TL 9), cutting edge weaponry sold to the military forces, many VR games on the market, and near monopoly on magical enhancements for weapons and armor for military use.

Why not hire a bigger crew? Data security, pilots need to be aces and pass a SERE course on steroids to even be considered for the job. Engineers can just work from a place they don't know the location on the map and not much is compromised. A pilot cracks under torture, the whole organization is screwed.

[The_Ryujin]

GAU-8 minigun eh? Only if you think this is mini heh.

For what it's worth here's the stats for one:

GE GAU-8/A, 30×173mm

Damage: 6d×6(2) pi++ inc
Acc: 6
Range: 3,000/10,000
Weight: 618/1,784
ROF: 65!
Shots: 1,174
ST: 35M
Bulk: -12
Rcl: 2


I think what you want is the M134 which is the actual minigun which looks a bit more like this.

You can find that stats for this one pg. 137 of High-Tech.

Ok I'm willing to take a crack at helping with this but I need to know what percentage of the planes volume is cut off by the pocket dimension and how much extra output can the elements pump out?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

Things the aircraft needs to be able to do:

Be a mobile base of operations, able to command a squad in all weather, even if contact with HQ is lost, bomb targets as small as a van moving at full speed with a direct hit, hack the most secure network with just a gizmo planted on it, defend itself against missiles and other aircraft, run without radar signature nor sound through the use of magic, insert troops through fast roping, HALO, and LALO jumps, hack military satellites and surveillance networks to be able to give real time tactical intel to the squad, EMP proof on top of that, and be able to operate even if cut from HQ.

.

Hacking is only a job or a vehicle if the vehicle is KITT. Otherwise the sort of cinematic hacking you seem to be envisioning is a job of a guy with a laptop (or on MacGuyver a very pretty girl with a laptop).There just isn't a lot of payload necessary for such a mission if it's possible at all. I also wonder how's it's done when comms are down.

Remote/cyber back-up is also usually done by a guy in a chair (see Spiderman:Homecoming). Usually the same one doing the hacking.

With magic, fire support can be done with a Teleport wand and a selection of warheads. That's how they do it on Merlin-1.

You may be trying to amke things more complicated than they need to be

[Phoenix_Dragon]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

Things the aircraft needs to be able to do:

But why does one airframe have to handle all of this?

I think you're overestimating the increase in crew required for the multiple-aircraft setup. First off, consider the other crew required for what you're asking for: you've got at least one weapons operator (More if you're not making them multitask between multiple turrets and bombing), a crew chief and flight engineer (A V-22 runs with a crew of four), at least one electronics warfare specialist, sensor operator, and cyber-warfare specialist (Even if you have the supercomputer doing the actual work, you need people deciding what tasks to do. Ideally you'd want more; fewer people means less efficiency), at least one officer to run the airborne HQ, probably a second-in-command to help share the (significant!) leadership load of coordinating all these departments, and probably a communications specialist. That's not including the armorer and any engineers required to service the equipment. So that's an optimal crew of 11-13 (Depending on how many weapons operators you have) that would all need to know enough mission details to be a critical threat if captured (Though I'd note that even an engineer that had no idea where they were in the world would still have plenty of information that could be used by a competent intel analyst). Plus the ground force, which would obviously know what's going on. I have no idea how big you intend the squad to be, so let's lowball it at 6. So 17-19 people in total have critical information.

Then compare this to multiple-aircraft force. Assuming the 4 flight crew (including crew chief and flight engineer) only crew the transport, you need to add another flight crew (Probably 2) to fly the EW aircraft. Add the flight crew of a fighter/bomber for CAS and air-superiority (Probably a single-seater, so 1; optionally, replace with UCAVs and a drone operator). Then add the flight crew for the insertion vehicle (1 or 2; we'll say 2). So that's five more people. But you no longer have the 1-3 weapon operators, because they're replaced with the fighter pilot or UCAV operator. So you go from 17-19 people to 20 people with critical information. You can even double the insert and air support for just 3 more people.

Except you also keep more of these people well away from the engagement area in the EW aircraft that's no longer landing in potentially hostile territory, have much more capable aircraft that can specialize in their specific role (Such as a small, nimble craft for quick and sneaky insertion/extraction), reducing the chance that you have a shoot-down, and if you do lose an aircraft (Which if you're going into combat situations, you should really count on), then you lose (Or have captured) far fewer people; worst case is now 8 (Either the EW/HQ aircraft that never gets near the ground fighting, or the insert aircraft with troops) vs 17-19.

And I want to particularly stress that last part, because when it comes to military operations, you need to plan for things to go wrong. Putting all your eggs in one basket is asking for someone to drop it.

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

I think you may be overestimating the number of people who have game ending information.

The location of the HQ is the only information that means game over for the entire organization that the crew has, and only the pilot has to have it since he's the only one that needs to see the area where he takes off/lands. The rest of the crew know only of the current target and the area around it. Capturing anyone other than the pilot compromises local operations. Capturing the pilot compromises the location of HQ. And the requirements for being a pilot are having sufficient magical potential for pushing vehicles well beyond their theoretical limits and passing a course that makes US SERE training look like a vacation in the Bahamas. The rest of the crew don't need to know much aside from what to do in the area they operate in, and they don't need the same level of expertise.

In short, pilots are the ones with the most critical information and the requirements are so high they're in very short supply.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

I

In short, pilots are the ones with the most critical information and the requirements are so high they're in very short supply.

I recommend that on a meta/GM level you not invest this much in the pilot's role. I've never seen it work out very well in group play.

It's almost as bad as a decker in Shadowrun. The PC playing the pilot has fun when everyone else is just a passenger and doesn't have fun when all the cp he's invested in Pilot! stuff do him no good when he's on the ground. NPC pilots might well be an option as what you describe would have them never getting out of their machines.

The question of what sort of game you're aiming at comes up again. You've already described very cinematic hacking goals. If you've effectively promised one player he can be the pilot from Airwolf....well, i wish you luck. Most of the advice about running a super-vehicle like Airwolf actually in in the Supers book.

In particular the way to create stats for such a vehicle.

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

Well, pilot and hacker are support NPCs. Basically, if the PC's way ahead is blocked my an armored vehicle or an MG nest, or if they are harried by helicopters or such, time to call the aircraft to bomb/shoot the obstacle. But most of the times, the ground troops go in hot zones straight from the SICASAV (say, Brazilian favellas) running silent and reach the critical objective (the conspiracy leader that recruited the local gangs and his laptop containing critical data, the weapon cache that needs to go boom, and so on), and extract to a new location. Sometimes (say, a class 4 pathogen lab is under attack), there needs to be heavy firepower and the troops are just airdropped into the hot zone while the pilot strategically bombs reinforcements to help the team put a charge to destroy the stockpile of potential biological weapons stashed on site before the conspiracy recovers it with a TL 9 incendiary charge, and wreck the computer, before evacuating.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

… replacing the rotors by reactors powered by fire elemental, giving it eternal fuel supply.

Have you replaced the rotors, or the turbine engines that turn them? Or both?

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

... the ground troops go in hot zones straight from the SICASAV (say, Brazilian favellas) running silent

This vehicle is going to make a lot of noise. A basic Osprey is pretty loud, and most of that noise comes from the rotors. If you have replaced the rotors and engines with direct jet lift, it's going to be a lot louder.

You might well find that having some of your action team be skilled in disguise and impersonation, so that they can get close to the target without alerting anyone, and having the aircraft come in fast once the team on the ground has become obvious, makes more sense.

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

Originally Posted by johndallman

This vehicle is going to make a lot of noise. A basic Osprey is pretty loud, and most of that noise comes from the rotors. If you have replaced the rotors and engines with direct jet lift, it's going to be a lot louder.

Silence spells are a thing. I did mention magic several times, and you even quoted the part about using elementals, so if magic exists, why can't it make aircraft silent?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

... so if magic exists, why can't it make aircraft silent?

OK, but you are going to need a significant area to cover those rotors. If you're using the default magic system, I'd enchant them with permanent silence, it's not expensive compared to the rest of this thing. You will still get a bit of noise in a low-altitude hover as the downdraft blows things around on the ground.