11-01-2009, 08:16 AM | #21 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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Re: [DF] Clerics
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11-01-2009, 11:06 AM | #22 |
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The top of a skyscraper downtown
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Re: [DF] Clerics
My mother used to teach Greek myths at the college level. She once remarked to me that Ares was portrayed in such a contradictory fashion (meaning contradictory from my point of view) because it reflected the ancient Greeks' view of war. So, no, I think rather than "evil" Ares was more about the effects of mass violence.
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11-01-2009, 12:47 PM | #23 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Spain —Europe
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Re: [DF] Clerics
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Ares wasn't viewed as a straightforward "evil god", because ancient Greek religion didn't have a really moral point of view, despite modern interpretations (the ritual point of view was more usual, instead). Also, there are many additional reasons for this phenomenon that puzzles moral mentalities: ancient religions are/were everything but streamlined, some contradictions were intentional and paradoxes were "koans" harboring divine mysteries. The current frame of mind, only concerned with technology, doesn't encompass anything of these thigns, and even refuses any possible meaning beyond the ones provided by . . . psychologists and other supposed "specialists" in the matter: Quote:
For instance, in an ancient spiritual tradition as Hinduism, a westerner man used to his own usual mentality (despite that mentality is now worldwide), could easily interpret the goddess Kali as a sort of demonic being (oops, look at there: Peshkali demons!). Of course there are always sects divergent from the orthodoxy (the right way of these things) worshipping in odd or even dangerous ways, but Kali isn't a demonic being but a manifestation of the Supreme Brahma, and worshipped as such; this is its proper meaning, and its figure conveys her own myths and esoteric doctrines and baggage, including some other different, lesser, but complementary meanings. And then, due the usual current point of view, this goddess has been transferred to the popular western pop culture as an evil being. Of course this sort of misunderstandings are "great" for magnates, politicians, christian missionaries and colonizers (colonialism still is here), for blaming diferent cultures as "devil-worshippers", justifying thus conquest, industrial slavery and ethnocide, for saying the least, in the "Third World" . . . So there are no real efforts to dispel the misunderstandings. Some of them even were fabricated purposely for furthering political goals. With a "legacy" as this, people can think of situations as the "good" Norse god Odin crusading against the "evil" Hindu Kali and an involvement of mortal Holy Warriors in the mess as making some sort of sense . . . I find ludicrous the idea of different pantheons of "real world gods" fighting between themselves and being abusively labeled as "good" or "evil". That can be done as "pure" fantasy without any link to real world cultures, but I don't see any profit in increasing lack of knowledge and misunderstandings by making chessy approaches to real world religion through fantasy (yes, I'm aware of the box "Dungeon Fantasy vs. Reality" in DF 7, p. 5). Divine ambiguity was there for reasons, and eliminating it completely -as the moral point of view does- isn't faithful in any way to any mythology. Roleplaying can be, besides a recreation, a tool for education or for misinformation and distortion. Playing or toying with ideas produces results, intended or not. I know this thread is about Dungeon Fantasy, but I've always seeing the same themes, the same concerns and misunderstandings everywhere, in serious games and in munchkin games equally. To raise arguments such as ". . . but this is DF! It's silly by definition!" for silencing toughts makes no sense for me; the same attitude -maybe a bit less loud, but still the same- is unfortunately usual while speaking of non-dungeon fantasy, too, or sometimes even in the context of other genres. In any case, many "specific DF threads" can be usable for Fantasy in a broader sense.
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11-01-2009, 05:14 PM | #24 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: [DF] Clerics
He's portrayed that way by Athenian poets and playwrights who flattered their own patron deity while denigrating the patron of the foes. But the Spartans and the Thebans had a very different perspective on the god. However if I was going to divvy up the Olympian gods into Good and Evil for DF yeah I'd probably go with Ares being an Evil Dood. Although there are other alternatives. For example Moloch was used by the Phoenicians as a title/name for Kronos, and they supposedly sacrificed children as part of their Kronos worship. Cybele was another foreign deity with an iffy reputation. Then there's Typhon... Medusa probably started out as a rival deity whose religion lost out to Athena...
Last edited by David Johnston2; 11-01-2009 at 05:33 PM. |
11-01-2009, 05:31 PM | #25 | |
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Re: [DF] Clerics
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