[Low-Tech/High-Tech] Looting and Improvising arms and armour in Victorian London

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Icelander

What about helmets? Aside from a leather skull cap with DR 1*, which can probably be obtained, are there any other possibilities? Does a policeman's helmet give any useful DR?

It's unlikely that any of your armor will be much more than DR 1*.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's unlikely that any of your armor will be much more than DR 1*.

Why?

Granted that it will be heavy and uncomfortable, is there any reason to assume that sheet iron encased in leather would not give more DR than that? Or steel chains and iron bars wrapped around a character between two layers of heavy leather?

Carrying sufficient armour into battle to protect against military weapons at TL5-6 is not all that practical, but that's not really because DR 5+ is so difficult to achieve.

[SteampengMK-1]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Why?

Granted that it will be heavy and uncomfortable, is there any reason to assume that sheet iron encased in leather would not give more DR than that? Or steel chains and iron bars wrapped around a character between two layers of heavy leather?

Carrying sufficient armour into battle to protect against military weapons at TL5-6 is not all that practical, but that's not really because DR 5+ is so difficult to achieve.

I would think it because cloth/cloth like armor isn't that effective (There a few exceptions, Like the silk vest interwoven with steel plates.)

I well however state that you can likely "Enchant" armour if you got an magic system worked out for that.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Why?

Because that's the DR of the base material (leather) you're using for armor, and you aren't going to get something usable and multi-layered in the time frame you have.

Originally Posted by Icelander

Granted that it will be heavy and uncomfortable, is there any reason to assume that sheet iron encased in leather would not give more DR than that? Or steel chains and iron bars wrapped around a character between two layers of heavy leather?

Sheet iron has more DR than that, but you aren't making brigandine in your desired time scale.

Originally Posted by Icelander

Carrying sufficient armour into battle to protect against military weapons at TL5-6 is not all that practical, but that's not really because DR 5+ is so difficult to achieve.

It's unlikely that you can work DR 5 metal plates with hand tools, at least in the time you have available. Typical 20 gauge steel (e.g. auto body panels) is probably DR 2; I don't know what would be present at your time period, but in general anything with high DR is only going to be worked with heavy industrial machinery or large amounts of time.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by SteampengMK-1

I would think it because cloth/cloth like armor isn't that effective (There a few exceptions, Like the silk vest interwoven with steel plates.)

Yes, but there has been no suggestion that anyone expects to get decent DR from cloth armour. There is a lot of metal in 1888 London and it is likely that the best improvised armour consists of some of that metal sewn into a leather or cloth backing. If there is not enough time to sew it carefully into it, just putting a sheet of metal into a pre-existing pocket, like that of a butcher's apron, seems like it would give more DR than just light or medium leather on its own.

Originally Posted by SteampengMK-1

I well however state that you can likely "Enchant" armour if you got an magic system worked out for that.

Well, as it happens, the only spellcaster that is on the PCs' side (that they know of) is Reggie Woodsworth. And he just walked into the Royal Mint, converted into the headquarters and lair of the villains, in the guise of Arthur Machen*. Reggie has been received with icy politeness and is now sitting down for a nice pre-sacrifice dinner with the apparent leader of the army of criminals besieging the Tower of London, one Atreus.**

*Whom the villains appear to wish very much to sacrifice at midnight in the Tower of London.
**Six feet tall, athletic and military in bearing, wears clothing fit for a gentleman under a military great coat, carries a sword and revolver with the air of one accustomed to their use and wears a metal mask that hides his head. Once he sits down to eat, it becomes apparent that the smooth and unmarked lower part of the mask can be removed from hinges attaching it to the upper part, leaving a domino half-mask whose design suggests a tiger's eyes. This reveals a magnificent mustache and a masculine jawline, framing a thin-lipped cruel mouth.

Atreus is tanned enough to suggest colonial service and his bearing suggests Army, Navy or perhaps some form of colonial police. There is also something about him remniscient of those hard, ruthless and resourceful men employed by Whitehall and the Colonial Office for the rougher kinds of secret diplomacy. Reggie is nearly certain that although Atreus takes great care to display the manners, speech and demeanour of a gentleman, his origins are a deal more humble than he'd like. All in all, there is something about his genteel and disciplined jack-booted ferocity that strikes Reggie as almost Prussian, though no trace of a foreign accent can be determined.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Because that's the DR of the base material (leather) you're using for armor, and you aren't going to get something usable and multi-layered in the time frame you have.

In a few hours, it is possible to layer a lot of paper over your chest area to get DR 4+. And that's the worst case, if you don't have anything better than paper.

Obviously, you can't get good DR over anything that must retain flexibility and mobility, that's what you need actual Armoury skill and long construction times for, but covering the front and back of the Chest or the forearms and shins with some rigid materials, ideally iron or steel, sewed into a backing of leather or cloth doesn't require any great feats of craftsmanship.

Originally Posted by Anthony

Sheet iron has more DR than that, but you aren't making brigandine in your desired time scale.

It's unlikely that you can work DR 5 metal plates with hand tools, at least in the time you have available.

No one is making new plates of any size. The intent is to find pre-existing metal objects, preferably a sheet about the size of a human chest, and sew it into a pocket on a butcher's apron. Other suggestions are using chains, bars and whatever is usually found in an ironmonger's shop to provide DR, sewing something around it to keep it in place.

Obviously, individual pockets for a lot of smaller plates is never going to happen in a few hours, but protecting a good part of the frontal Chest hit location doesn't require a design that complex.

And, again, while 30+ lbs. of chains wrapped over heavy leather backing around the Chest are probably much worse than purpose-made armour, I can't imagine that they'd grant only DR 1*.

Originally Posted by Anthony

Typical 20 gauge steel (e.g. auto body panels) is probably DR 2; I don't know what would be present at your time period, but in general anything with high DR is only going to be worked with heavy industrial machinery or large amounts of time.

There probably ought to be DR 1 plates or platters that it might be possible to layer, but hopefully there are thicker metal plates of useful size around a foundry or ironmonger that are used for something at the late 19th century. Didn't Victorian people use iron sheets for strengthening carriages, reinforce doors or something?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Didn't Victorian people use iron sheets for strengthening carriages, reinforce doors or something?

Sure, but in the end, you're looking for materials that can be shaped in a couple of hours with light industrial tools, and 'DR' and 'light industrial tools' are incompatible goals.

[Polydamas]

Its not impossible that someone might have a shirt of butted mail, a steel helmet, or a thick quilted jacket hanging in their study or parlour. There were plenty of people wearing and fighting in these in 1888. Sadly the South Kensington Museum with its Indian and Oriental arms and armour is in the wrong district, and so are the townhouses of rich collectors.

Edit: One of the colonials has compiled a report on the weapons carried by the infamous Tongs of San Francisco.

[Celjabba]

A clawfoot bathtub, carefully smashed, could provide the plating ...
And instead of chain and nails, why not use cutlery ? Heavy spoons are easy to find by the dozen,and are properly shaped to be sewn on in an overlapping 'scale brigandine' way...
You will end up looking and moving like a dalek, however.

An inverness coat or a coachman buff coat, with thick leather panels sewn on would offer good protection against bite and claws. Adding metal bits and I am not sure the protection afforded would be worth the DX penalty.

You may also ask around for families with a ancestor who fought at Waterloo... There must be some cuirass lying around carefully polished.

This is french, but I imagine the equivalent existed on the other side.
http://www.musee-armee.fr/fileadmin/...se-fauveau.pdf

Celjabba

[adm]

Since this is one of the rougher parts of London, would the police stations have any firearms?

Perhaps you could have some improvised tower shields/pavises that some of the stronger guys can shove with, a second rank can use spears/polearms, and a third rank can use firearms/bows/crossbows to shoot the primary threats.

You should be able to improvise molotovs and such with common items, if nothing else you should find lamp oil.