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Old 06-07-2014, 05:09 AM   #1
vicky_molokh
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Default Software Tools for technical skills: Cost, Quality, Complexity

Greetings, all!

As you likely know, many /TL skills require proper software to work (B472). This explicitly includes Engineering, and most surely includes Computer Hacking/Operation/Programming and Intelligence Analysis (the two which made me look into the issue). I'm not so sure about Current Affairs, which is /TL too. And UT25 mentions that it is normal to use Accounting, Artillery, Market Analysis, Strategy, Tactics, and Writing with software tools (which seems logical).

According to Basic Set, at TL10 it takes a a Complexity 7 (B472) programme to use with such skills. The base price doesn't seem to be listed anywhere. This seems a bit high, as this implies that a programme for designing a new car or for data mining is about as complicated as a human mind.

According to Ultra-Tech, such programmes are effectively free/included with the default device or OS for Basic Quality; Complexity 5 for Good Quality (+1); Complexity 7 for Fine Quality (+2); assuming Average to Very Hard skills, that is. According to UT25, a typical Complexity 5 programme costs $100, and a C7 one costs $1k, at TL10.

Line Editor Masters commented that UT's default software prices are possibly too low for THS.

So now I'm trying to figure out:
  • What is the most canonical/canon-compatible cost and Complexity of Software Tools? (We're trying to stick as close to scripture as possible.) Yes, I know the price will vary from the base assumption here and there, but I'm looking for standard data the same way we have that for AI costs and Complexities.
  • What about access to 'Best equipment [i.e. software] possible at your TL' (+5 as per TL10)? Would it be believable as a request for equipment from a powerful corporation? If so, how does one estimate its $ cost for purposes of Assistance Roll modifiers?
  • What exactly are the effects of using no equipment [software], and thus 'the user’s skill will operate at a lower TL' (B472) as applied to Market Analysis, Intelligence Analysis, and Current Affairs, assuming I do succeed at the roll?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:22 AM   #2
johndallman
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Default Re: Software Tools for technical skills: Cost, Quality, Complexity

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
... this implies that a programme for designing a new car or for data mining is about as complicated as a human mind.
At TL10, I could believe that, because they'll have many of the capabilities of a human mind, or better, for their respective fields. The CAD software will have a direct appreciation of shape, kinematics and materials science superior to that of all but the most talented engineers. The data miner will be very effective at spotting distantly connected ideas.
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: Software Tools for technical skills: Cost, Quality, Complexity

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At TL10, I could believe that, because they'll have many of the capabilities of a human mind, or better, for their respective fields. The CAD software will have a direct appreciation of shape, kinematics and materials science superior to that of all but the most talented engineers. The data miner will be very effective at spotting distantly connected ideas.
This makes sense for NAIs with their own skill levels, and maybe for Modular Skill Sets that can be plugged into an AI's mind. For a bonus-providing software that can do nothing on its own but has a good synergy with a sapient mind's skills, I'm not so sure.
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Old 06-07-2014, 06:16 AM   #4
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Default Re: Software Tools for technical skills: Cost, Quality, Complexity

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
This makes sense for NAIs with their own skill levels, and maybe for Modular Skill Sets that can be plugged into an AI's mind. For a bonus-providing software that can do nothing on its own but has a good synergy with a sapient mind's skills, I'm not so sure.
I'm exposed to one real-world example: fairly leading-edge CAD software, which my employers develop. It has a lot of implicit knowledge about engineering practice programmed into it, which speeds up design work a lot. ... Aha ...

An idea that's slightly below GURPS resolution, but may be a useful rationalisation: the bonus for assistive software is essentially an extra time bonus: it allows you to work faster, or take "extra time" and work at the unassisted speed.
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Old 06-07-2014, 03:44 PM   #5
jeff_wilson
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Default Re: Software Tools for technical skills: Cost, Quality, Complexity

I think there's some received wisdom in FIFTH WAVE about Comp Op/Programming/Hacking that supercedes the UT rules, at least with regard to routine consumer use. IIRC, with *AI operating systems running, Comp Op is not required for users at all since the *AI uses its own skill set to interpret user requests and carry them out.

Of course, Comp Op might still be desirable because you can substitute your own scores for those of a modest NAI, but even then additional software tools should not have to be bought.
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Old 06-07-2014, 07:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Software Tools for technical skills: Cost, Quality, Complexity

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This seems a bit high, as this implies that a programme for designing a new car or for data mining is about as complicated as a human mind.
Actually, it assumes that design software will use sufficient power to stress a desktop computer of the relevant tech level. This may or may not involve actual complexity in a programming sense -- many forms of number crunching software are actually pretty simple, they just require lots and lots of computer power. For example, stuff like raytracing can eat loads of computer power despite not really being a terribly complex problem.
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: Software Tools for technical skills: Cost, Quality, Complexity

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Actually, it assumes that design software will use sufficient power to stress a desktop computer of the relevant tech level. This may or may not involve actual complexity in a programming sense -- many forms of number crunching software are actually pretty simple, they just require lots and lots of computer power. For example, stuff like raytracing can eat loads of computer power despite not really being a terribly complex problem.
I'm assuming that difference between a 100GB program and a 10TB (i.e. +1 vs. +2) programme for skills such as Tactics, Artillery, Accounting etc. is not better graphics, and that those TBs include significant amounts of actual code/machine commands.
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:43 AM   #8
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Default Re: Software Tools for technical skills: Cost, Quality, Complexity

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I'm assuming that difference between a 100GB program and a 10TB (i.e. +1 vs. +2) programme for skills such as Tactics, Artillery, Accounting etc. is not better graphics, and that those TBs include significant amounts of actual code/machine commands.
First of all, GURPS complexity ratings don't necessarily tell you anything but the amount of computer power required to use them. Secondly, many of those systems will do modeling and simulations, which can have bloated processing requirement in much the same way as graphics.
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:58 AM   #9
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Default Re: Software Tools for technical skills: Cost, Quality, Complexity

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First of all, GURPS complexity ratings don't necessarily tell you anything but the amount of computer power required to use them. Secondly, many of those systems will do modeling and simulations, which can have bloated processing requirement in much the same way as graphics.
I was talking about program size on the Winchester, not in RAM.

I do understand that a small program can nonetheless require lots of RAM/CPU if the data it produces/works with is significantly larger.
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:10 PM   #10
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Default Re: Software Tools for technical skills: Cost, Quality, Complexity

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I was talking about program size on the Winchester, not in RAM.
GURPS rules for software tools don't say how big they are.
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