Serrated Sword

[(E)]

Fast draw penalties?
Sharpening may be tricky at lower TLs
Prone to rust in the valleys of the serrations.
Good at holding onto poisons etc
Would there be a reduction in thrusting effectiveness? Lots of bits to catch on to reduce depth.

[Bruno]

Prone to infection of the wound for the same reasons as the rust issue - harder to get all the crud out, and then on top of that any rust problems will create more surfaces for bacteria to accumulate.

But generally the reason you put serrations on a blade is for additional utility in wood cutting - such as the various kinds of "camp knife" that hover on the edge of machete and attempt to be all things. Importantly, the primary edge is not the serrated edge.

We do use serrated knives for steak. I haven't had a good explanation for that given to me, because as noted we don't use that to butcher the animal. I'm wondering if it's related to the general attempt to remove weapon-knives from the dinner table starting in the Renaissance - a serrated steak knife won't get mistaken for a knife-I-brought-to-stab-you-and-pick-my-teeth.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Bruno

We do use serrated knives for steak. I haven't had a good explanation for that given to me, because as noted we don't use that to butcher the animal. I'm wondering if it's related to the general attempt to remove weapon-knives from the dinner table starting in the Renaissance - a serrated steak knife won't get mistaken for a knife-I-brought-to-stab-you-and-pick-my-teeth.

Wikipedia has your answer, and it was much as I suspected: it's a modern (post-WWII) innovation, used with stainless steel kitchenware and is largely used because serrated blades do not require sharpening.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Bruno

P

But generally the reason you put serrations on a blade is for additional utility in wood cutting - such as the various kinds of "camp knife" that hover on the edge of machete and attempt to be all things. Importantly, the primary edge is not the serrated edge.

The serrated back edge on some "survival" knives is usually advertised as a feature for cutting rope and/or wire. You'd probably be tearing your way through the rope strand by strand and jsut getting a good grip with a ahrd surface for snapping light wire.

The myths are not recent though . In All Quiet On The Western Front soem newbies showed up with "pioneer" bayonets with serrated back edges and the old hands confiscated those sayign the Allies would think their purpose was to inflict terrible abdominal wounds.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The myths are not recent though . In All Quiet On The Western Front soem newbies showed up with "pioneer" bayonets with serrated back edges and the old hands confiscated those sayign the Allies would think their purpose was to inflict terrible abdominal wounds.

During WWII my grandfather hand-sharpened a serrated back into his combat knife. He served as a radioman island-hopping his way across the Pacific and never actually saw any action, but he was ready if he had to. My father still has that knife, and I have no doubts about how terrible an abdominal wound it could have inflicted.

[lwcamp]

Not a sword or knife, but carnivorous animals with blade-like teeth (sharks, monitor lizards, non-avian theropod dinosaurs, sebecid crocodylomorphs) usually have serrations along the edges. The serrations are usually attributed to adaptations for helping the teeth cut through skin, muscle, and sinew (although the mechanism for this is usually not described).

It has also been noted that the profile of the teeth tips on Komodo monitors and many theropod dinosaurs have the profile of a scalpel blade, with the individual teeth acting like serrations.

Similarly, the steak knives I am familiar with have serrations, which help it to cut through meat when drawn back across the meat. I'm not sure how well the "constant pressure with drawing motion" translates to a sword cut, however.

Luke

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by lwcamp

Not a sword or knife, but carnivorous animals with blade-like teeth (sharks, monitor lizards, non-avian theropod dinosaurs, sebecid crocodylomorphs) usually have serrations along the edges. The serrations are usually attributed to adaptations for helping the teeth cut through skin, muscle, and sinew (although the mechanism for this is usually not described).

I *think* the mechanism is essentially the same as tearing, you stretch the material until the stress concentration is high enough it parts. Which is presumably why serrations tend to be useful for fibrous stuff or things that are tough but not especially hard - a sharp edge would need to push quite a distance into the material to stretch it enough a strand parts, but with a serration you can do the stretching *perpendicular* to the direction you are trying to get the cut to go.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Serrated edges. Turning a sword-on-sword bind into a novel and interesting experience since forever.

Yup. Taht's about the greatest benefit a serrated edge on a sword will have.

That and letting you saw through a tree instead of chopping, which with saw-tooth (IE offset) serrations, can be faster.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Serrated edges don't seem very popular on kitchen knives. Bread knives, yes.

That's because you often don't want to saw at your food when preparing it. Serrations are really only good for sawing (even when dulled they still saw adequately).

So maybe the straight edges are just because the serrations aren't worth the effort to maintain.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Wikipedia has your answer, and it was much as I suspected: it's a modern (post-WWII) innovation, used with stainless steel kitchenware and is largely used because serrated blades do not require sharpening.

Well... they do. Eventually. I've increased the "life" of some really cheap steak knives by sharpening them every 3-4 years. It isn't that hard, but it does take like 20 times as long as sharpening a non-serrated knife.


But I've also got the right files to do the job. Most people will just go drop another 20$ on a new set of cheap steak knives.

[lwcamp]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I *think* the mechanism is essentially the same as tearing, you stretch the material until the stress concentration is high enough it parts. Which is presumably why serrations tend to be useful for fibrous stuff or things that are tough but not especially hard - a sharp edge would need to push quite a distance into the material to stretch it enough a strand parts, but with a serration you can do the stretching *perpendicular* to the direction you are trying to get the cut to go.

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

Luke

[Tom H.]

The Dungeon Fantasy RPG may already have something.

Hobgoblins and Orcs (grouped with Goblin-Kin) wield "saw-toothed falchions that leave nasty wounds."

Their damage is appended with "+ follow-up 1 HP of bleeding injury from rough edge."