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Old 07-25-2018, 04:29 PM   #61
ericbsmith
 
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Default Re: Luck

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
OK; let's follow this logic: you're saying that Talent only applies if the Ability in question has the appropriate Power Modifier. Since Reliable “works exactly like Talent, and can't affect anything that Talent wouldn't affect”, this means that you can't take Reliable unless you also take a suitable Power Modifier.
No, what I'm saying is that you can't take a special rule under Powering Up for Luck, which allows a Talent to give a bonus to rolls made through luck, and generalize it backwards through the Reliable modifier. The Talent bonus to Luck is a minor perk that Luck gets from being a Power, not a gateway to apply Reliable to it.
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Old 07-25-2018, 04:56 PM   #62
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Default Re: Luck

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Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
No, what I'm saying is that you can't take a special rule under Powering Up for Luck, which allows a Talent to give a bonus to rolls made through luck, and generalize it backwards through the Reliable modifier. The Talent bonus to Luck is a minor perk that Luck gets from being a Power, not a gateway to apply Reliable to it.
I know what you're trying to say. I'm just not convinced that you're right.

Everything about how Talents affect Advantages is defined in GURPS Powers, and there isn't a distinction made between “these benefits always apply” and “those benefits only apply if the Advantage is part of a Power”. Rather, all benefits that are granted by Talents technically only apply if the Advantage is part of a Power. So when Reliable says “This works exactly like Talent, and can't affect anything that Talent wouldn't affect”, it's not drawing a distinction between “benefits that affect the activation of the Ability” and “benefits that grant bonuses or reduce penalties relating to the Ability”. Both of those are uses of the Ability, and rise or fall together. So either all of the benefits granted by a Talent can also be attained through Reliable, or none of them can.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:07 PM   #63
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Default Re: Luck

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
"Can't affect anything Talent wouldn't affect" doesn't actually mean "Can affect everything Talent can affect".
No, but "works exactly like Talent" does mean that.
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And of course vanilla Luck can't be affected by Talent anyway. And really what I started out talking about can only be vanilla luck. Luck with a power modifier is usually a superpower, albeit a subtle one.
Certainly once you've added Active, without which you wouldn't normally be able to declare Luck use in advance and thus wouldn't get the Talent bonus.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:09 PM   #64
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Default Re: Luck

Reliable applies to anything a talent would affect, assuming you had such a talent. It does not require you to actually have a talent, nor does it require an appropriate talent actually exist. For powers that lack a power modifier, no talent exists, but reliable is still possible (side point: I dislike reliable, it tends to be unreasonably cheap on low base cost powers).
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:13 PM   #65
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Default Re: Luck

…and unreasonably expensive for high-cost Abilities. I wouldn't mind turning it into a leveled Perk. 1 point per +1 works out the same for 20-point Abilities.
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Last edited by dataweaver; 07-25-2018 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:15 PM   #66
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Default Re: Luck

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
No, but "works exactly like Talent" does mean that.
It also means that you get +1 to your reaction rolls for a group to be designated later, so I don't think that's what is intended.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:27 PM   #67
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Default Re: Luck

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Well, if you are already competent, Luck without modifications allows you to succeed at a higher penalties than normal. Imagine that you have two fighters, one with Luck and one with Luck, each with a Shield-16 and Shortsword-16, and each with a medium shield (DB 2) and a shortsword, giving them an effective Block of 13 and an effective Parry of 13.

The character with Luck can attempt an attack against the vitals (-3) with a deceptive attack (-4)
"You may not reduce your final
effective skill below 10 with a
Deceptive Attack" Basic Set, p.370
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:31 PM   #68
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Default Re: Luck

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
It also means that you get +1 to your reaction rolls for a group to be designated later, so I don't think that's what is intended.
Show me where the Talents defined in Powers grant a Reaction bonus. (Note that Powers' Talents are analogous to, but not the same as, Basic Set Talents, and grant similar, but not the same, benefits.)
The only deliberate omission is power Talents (see p. B255 and GURPS Powers). While these are related to the traits defined on pp. B89–91 in the sense that both grant bonuses to success rolls (whence the similarity in name), they aren't identical. Power Talents affect the use of advantages, not Skills.
Power-Ups 3: Talents
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Last edited by dataweaver; 07-25-2018 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Added citation
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:32 PM   #69
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Default Re: Luck

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"I've been searching for the source of that bug for a week! How'd you find it?"

"Dunno, just happened to notice that semi-colon where a colon should be."
That is what I would call "competence". There's no external variable outside of the programmer's control. He just saw the right way to proceed and took it.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:57 PM   #70
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Default Re: Luck

I've always considered the main difference to be that Luck is under the control of the Player, while Serendipity is under the control of the GM.
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