Fantasy Trip Illusions

[JLV]

Have the GM roll against the viewer's IQ then, to determine if he notices those minor things, if it's truly important. Problem solved.

[JohnPaulB]

Originally Posted by Shostak

This post poses the question of what happens when an illusion of a warrior attacks and rolls a critical failure resulting in either a dropped or broken weapon. I ran a search on this thread to see if this had been discussed and nothing turned up, so I bring up the question here. Illusions can't divide. So, what happens? Has this already been hashed out and I (and my search) missed it?

I don't recall illusions breaking weapons ever coming up at my table. But it will eventually! I suggest that the illusion (or image) should vanish.

Rather than have the figure disappear if it rolls a drop or break weapon, how about this:
If it rolls a drop weapon, the illusion fumbles as it "tries" to catch the weapon (which is still in the hand) and falls prone with the weapon still in hand. It is then able to stand up next turn.
If it breaks a weapon, the illusion does the above prone action, but the weapon now appears broken in his hand.

[JohnPaulB]

So here are some ways to look at it

1) Illusion walking through brush.

As I understand it, the human mind often fills in gaps of logic. I believe an experiment was done with having test subjects watch a movie of a room with a lot of people going in and out. They were told to watch for some specific action. During all the commotion in the room, a man in a gorilla suit walks through. Afterwards they subjects were asked if they saw any odd animals in the movie and I believe all said no.

So perhaps an illusion can walk through undergrowth, and the undergrowth would be seen through the legs, but it wouldn’t be recognized as such by the oblivious viewers. They “fill-in” the brush moving, etc. You might feel a bit unsettled that there is something not quite right about it though.

The Illusion itself is not pushing the underbrush away, its just your filling in the paradox.

This is where Sherlock Holmes would crack the case by recognizing that the undergrowth didn’t move and seeing that the legs pass through the branches.


2) Illusion not opening doors.

The wizard controls the Illusion. If the RAW states that

ITL p.139: "An illusion cannot affect any inanimate object; its effects are wholly mental, and are the product of the wizard’s mind and the minds of those who see the illusion."

"Since an illusion cannot affect an inanimate object, it can never open doors, fetch drinks, spring traps, etc."

This is something that the wizard has absolutely understands. Therefore he will not direct his Illusions to do something like that. If someone tells Joe (the illusion) to open the door and go into the next room, Sam (the wizard) will have Joe say “No, you do it.” Or something like that and not do open the door.


3) Recognize that Illusion is pushing through brush or not opening doors

Originally Posted by JLV

Have the GM roll against the viewer's IQ then, to determine if he notices those minor things, if it's truly important. Problem solved.

[Anomylous]

Originally Posted by BrotherBill

Would a forced disbelief be akin to "rolling to miss?" Would you want to roll under your IQ to successfully keep from disbelieving it, or over your IQ to fail in disbelieving it? I would lean in favor of higher IQ figures succeeding more often.

I'd say, same rules, so you want to roll over your IQ... giving dumb players the advantage! (Personally, I know when I was younger and dumber, I found it much easier to believe whatever I wanted to be true than I do now...)

Edit: dumb *characters

[FireHorse]

Originally Posted by Anomylous

(Personally, I know when I was younger and dumber, I found it much easier to believe whatever I wanted to be true than I do now...)

I feel like you just summarized a big chunk of the Human Condition, right there. :)

[Sinanju]

Originally Posted by JLV

MY point is that, according to the rules for disbelieving illusions in both Wizard and Advanced Wizard, EVERYBODY knows how to do it. QED, it's something taught to everyone, probably for safety reasons against insane mages or fey creatures or anyone else who might create an illusion/image for nefarious reasons, which renders your argument about "special training" moot at best.

"Remember, kids--if it's too good to be true..."
"IT PROBABLY IS!" They chorus in reply.
"So if you stumble upon a pot of gold just sitting in the road?"
"I DISBELIEVE!"
"If Kroatan The Barbarian kicks in the door of your hovel?"
"I DISBELIEVE!"
"If a wizard summons a demon to attack you?"
"I DISBELIEVE!"

[FireHorse]

Originally Posted by Sinanju

"So if you stumble upon a pot of gold just sitting in the road?"
"I DISBELIEVE!"

And just to prove that I disbelieve that pot of gold, I send my brave and loyal NPC, Jimmy the Equipment Mule — whose life I treasure dearly, I assure you — to go and demonstrate just how illusory it is.

After he sets his backpack full of loot down over here, of course.

[hcobb]

How much does it cost to hire a Nodwick?

You can get a starting wizard for $25 x 2 (doubled base pay for danger) plus $25 (living) plus $20/week in books for the apprentice to study = $95/week.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by Shostak

This post poses the question of what happens when an illusion of a warrior attacks and rolls a critical failure resulting in either a dropped or broken weapon. I ran a search on this thread to see if this had been discussed and nothing turned up, so I bring up the question here. Illusions can't divide. So, what happens? Has this already been hashed out and I (and my search) missed it?

I don't recall illusions breaking weapons ever coming up at my table. But it will eventually! I suggest that the illusion (or image) should vanish.

For me,
the short answer: dispels the illusion or image.

the long answer: With a drop or broken weapon, either it causes the illusion/image to vanish since it violates the laws that govern it (much like invisibility destroys illusions/images, thus is a precedence) OR it simply does not break or drop and is obvious to all that are watching. I prefer the former since when an illusion fails to drop or break, it is obviously an illusion seems akin to disbelief. And for images anything causing such would have enough force to disrupt the image (spell or critical failure). OR the broken or drop weapon just disappears.

The good news is this give "break weapon" and "drop weapon" spells more power for spells that are seldom taken. And it give a much needed additional downside to illusions.

[RobW]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

I wonder if GMs should specifically be told that they can allow a bonus to disbelieve on anything that seems to call for it?

This points to another good solution. 18 is rolled, but the weapon doesn't break. Now roll to disbelieve is 3d vs IQ+4 or so.