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Old 10-30-2022, 12:06 AM   #31
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Default Re: Product concept: Dungeon Fantasy adaptation guides for famous adventures

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Just to put this in isolation: SJGames does not have any open license for publishing.
Also there is this page people may find useful.
http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html
It really is not a long read and anyone should read it before posting anything elsewhere.
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Old 10-30-2022, 01:19 AM   #32
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Default Re: Product concept: Dungeon Fantasy adaptation guides for famous adventures

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Also there is this page people may find useful.
http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html
It really is not a long read and anyone should read it before posting anything elsewhere.
Quote:
There is a principle of law called "fair use." It protects the press by expressly allowing writers to use a short amount of copyrighted material or a trademark in the course of review or commentary about the product. The copyright or trademark holder may not block this use, as long as the use is otherwise legal (that is, not libelous, for example).

So for example, SJG is saying here that it's not a violation of trademark for someone (e.g. O'Reilly) to write commentary (iPod: The Missing Manual, https://www.amazon.com/iPod-Missing-...1449316190/ref) about someone else's (Apple's) product. This is correct.
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Old 10-30-2022, 03:27 AM   #33
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Default Re: Product concept: Dungeon Fantasy adaptation guides for famous adventures

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Quote:
There is a principle of law called "fair use." It protects the press by expressly allowing writers to use a short amount of copyrighted material or a trademark in the course of review or commentary about the product. The copyright or trademark holder may not block this use, as long as the use is otherwise legal (that is, not libelous, for example).

So for example, SJG is saying here that it's not a violation of trademark for someone (e.g. O'Reilly) to write commentary (iPod: The Missing Manual, https://www.amazon.com/iPod-Missing-...1449316190/ref) about someone else's (Apple's) product. This is correct.
Yes but a review wasn't the purpose requested by the Op in this thread.
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Old 10-30-2022, 03:45 AM   #34
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Default Re: Product concept: Dungeon Fantasy adaptation guides for famous adventures

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Yes but a review wasn't the purpose requested by the Op in this thread.
Commentary, not review.
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Old 10-31-2022, 11:18 AM   #35
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Default Re: Product concept: Dungeon Fantasy adaptation guides for famous adventures

I'm a little confused at the premise of the thread - the OP asks a two questions:

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+ If there were for example an eight-page booklet on converting monsters, traps, and treasures in Against The Giants or Ascent of the Leviathan to DFRPG's ruleset, would you pay $8 for it?

+ Is publishing DFRPG conversions for famous adventures a thing? If so where do I find it?
As far as I can tell, no one else is weighing in saying that they'd also like to buy such conversions, and I'm also not seeing links to DFRPG conversions of famous adventures. Here's one I found: https://github.com/dripton/gurpswhiterock

Instead, the thread switched gears into talking about the legality of such a thing even though we aren't lawyers, and none of this is legal advice. On one side, you have folks nervous about publishing such conversions, and you have sjmdw45 trying to convince them to not be so nervous (if I follow correctly).

That seems fruitless to me; they're going to be nervous unless they talk to an actual lawyer. Is the goal now to convince authors to not be nervous about writing conversions of old adventures so that they'll talk to a lawyer about writing conversions so that they'll write conversions and sell them to the folks who want to buy them?
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Old 10-31-2022, 11:26 AM   #36
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Default Re: Product concept: Dungeon Fantasy adaptation guides for famous adventures

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As far as I can tell, no one else is weighing in saying that they'd also like to buy such conversions
Restlessgriffin also seems interested, and Dalin contributed some ideas but it's unclear if he would want to consume them or is just giving ideas for how he would write them. From things Dalin has said elsewhere I think he has no difficulty doing his own conversions on the fly.

Quote:
and I'm also not seeing links to DFRPG conversions of famous adventures. Here's one I found: https://github.com/dripton/gurpswhiterock
Thank you! I will add Castle Whiterock to my queue of adventures to offer my players, after I do Ascent of the Leviathan this weekend.
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Old 10-31-2022, 04:25 PM   #37
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Default Re: Product concept: Dungeon Fantasy adaptation guides for famous adventures

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Originally Posted by sjmdw45 View Post
Dalin contributed some ideas but it's unclear if he would want to consume them or is just giving ideas for how he would write them. From things Dalin has said elsewhere I think he has no difficulty doing his own conversions on the fly.
I would happily buy such things, assuming a reasonable price. I do a lot of fast-and-loose conversions on the fly but am not opposed to having more thoughtful conversions. I simply don't have time to do such things myself, especially because the main reason I pull classic D&D adventures is for short games, one-shots, and the like where I can get away with flying by the seat of my pants.

I'm definitely not a lawyer and haven't the faintest clue whether such things would be permissible under fair use. I'm just enjoying the fantasy!
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Old 10-31-2022, 05:12 PM   #38
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I would happily buy such things, assuming a reasonable price. I do a lot of fast-and-loose conversions on the fly but am not opposed to having more thoughtful conversions. I simply don't have time to do such things myself, especially because the main reason I pull classic D&D adventures is for short games, one-shots, and the like where I can get away with flying by the seat of my pants.
Yeah. I can't help thinking of the Kromm thread where he mentioned that how expensive procuring art is; and of the Alexandrian's and Bryce Lynch's articles on the importance of good hooks and clearly-formatted map keys; and I think there are a LOT of well-written adventures out there that already have good art, good hooks and clear, descriptive writing that I would love to run in DFRPG. Why shouldn't we be able to consume these adventures without running Labyrinth Lord or OSRIC? Especially if both the adventure authors like Malrex and SJG see the advantages and give a green light.

I sure hope this becomes a thing. In any case, I will post my notes here after running Ascent of the Leviathan next weekend. (I plan to check with Malrex after doing the initial writeup on Monday or so, and then hopefully post the post-feedback version here by next Wednesday-ish.)

Last edited by sjmdw45; 10-31-2022 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 10-31-2022, 06:31 PM   #39
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Default Re: Product concept: Dungeon Fantasy adaptation guides for famous adventures

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Originally Posted by sjmdw45 View Post
I sure hope this becomes a thing. In any case, I will post my notes here after running Ascent of the Leviathan next weekend. (I plan to check with Malrex after doing the initial writeup on Monday or so, and then hopefully post the post-feedback version here by next Wednesday-ish.)
Forget whether you could get away with it *legally*. Trying to profit from somebody else's work without their express permission fails my standards for something you can do *ethically*. And I'm absolutely confident SJ, and probably most content creators in any industry, would agree with me on that.

I suppose if you could get the permission of the creator but not the copyright holder it might get ethically ambiguous enough to care about the legal situation, but without at least that much, no, it's a terrible idea. Even if SJ wasn't too decent a person to avoid this, he's not dumb enough to sign off on something that can only offend most of the freelancers his business depends on. I honestly can't see any gaming company execs thinking this was a smart business move whether they could get away with it legally or not.
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Old 10-31-2022, 06:56 PM   #40
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Forget whether you could get away with it *legally*. Trying to profit from somebody else's work without their express permission fails my standards for something you can do *ethically*. And I'm absolutely confident SJ, and probably most content creators in any industry, would agree with me on that.
Please, people, stop trying to derail this thread with baseless accusations. In this case the creator of the adventure is onboard--he (Malrex) has posted in this thread and we're in touch via email. And SJG is obviously totally onboard with us talking about things we've created with DFRPG--to quote from the Welcome sticky:

"We also love to hear your ideas for what you're doing with the set (or plan on doing), as well as any add-ons, adventure or encounter ideas, heroes, and the like that you come up with. Please be kind to each other!"

Now can we please talk about DFRPG instead of telling each other not to do so?

Last edited by sjmdw45; 10-31-2022 at 07:09 PM.
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