Using Extra Effort when Physical/Mental Stunned?

[thom]

Originally Posted by Rupert

B377 explicitly calls out Retreat as not being available if you're stunned.

Which brings me to think: if you can't even focus enough to Retreat, how are you able to focus on using Extra Effort??

thom

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by thom

Which brings me to think: if you can't even focus enough to Retreat, how are you able to focus on using Extra Effort??

Who says extra effort requires focus? It's pretty much undefined what it is.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Note that this is not merely a ruling on something left unclear, but a change to the RAW - B377 explicitly calls out Retreat as not being available if you're stunned.

Although one of the options for Not Just Stunned in Horror is fleeing.

[Christopher R. Rice]

I allow it. Mostly because Extra Effort is almost entirely a meta-game construct. It allows your character to do more temporarily. You don't require stimulus to use it.

TL;DR If you can use Luck while stunned you should be able to use Extra Effort too.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Who says extra effort requires focus? It's pretty much undefined what it is.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Extra Effort is almost entirely a meta-game construct. It allows your character to do more temporarily. You don't require stimulus to use it.

B356 "Through sheer force of will, you can push your body past its usual limits when you perform physical tasks"

There's definitely focus and stimulus involved, it's like what Varyon said they just handwaive it in combat for efficiency but you could easily do will roll versions of the 'in combat' EE stuff for more realism if you didn't mind the crunch.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Note that this is not merely a ruling on something left unclear, but a change to the RAW - B377 explicitly calls out Retreat as not being available if you're stunned.

Hmm... then I might charge something for a retreat like a wildcard or destiny point. Depending on how dangerous the attack was and how important it was for the character to be able to avoid it in order to continue being a part of the game.

"Not allowed to participate for an extended number of seconds and then my character died and I was so penalized that my defense attempt was a joke." is an awful lot of feels bad for the player. Especially considering how long even one second of combat can take above board if there's a lot going on. I might not break the RAW if I remember it, but I would certainly rule in favor of the player wherever there was ambiguity. Note that I'd rule in favor of the player, not in favor of the defender.

Again, as a GM: Players having fun > Realism. Especially when talking about decisions that make things decidedly feel bad for players vs. letting them participate.

[thom]

Originally Posted by Plane

B356 "Through sheer force of will, you can push your body past its usual limits when you perform physical tasks"

And this is why I'm still having an issue with the concept of using EE while stunned. Apologies to Chris, but while I agree Luck is a metagame construct, I'm not so sure about Extra Effort...

Of course, the odds of this ever coming up again are cosmic; but I saw a variant on All-Out Attack once which allowed a (greatly) penalized defense roll: how would using Feverish Defense work for that?

thom

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Plane

B356 "Through sheer force of will, you can push your body past its usual limits when you perform physical tasks"

For example, you're using it to push past the physical limit of being stunned.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by thom

And this is why I'm still having an issue with the concept of using EE while stunned. Apologies to Chris, but while I agree Luck is a metagame construct, I'm not so sure about Extra Effort...

Of course, the odds of this ever coming up again are cosmic; but I saw a variant on All-Out Attack once which allowed a (greatly) penalized defense roll: how would using Feverish Defense work for that?

thom

Christopher, please (or CRR). Seriously, you're reading it too literally. Just like Honesty is often read too literally. This is just flavor text, not rule text.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by thom

In the last session one PC ended up Stunned and kept failing his checks. While being attacked, he asked if he could use Feverish Defense to get around the -4 penalty on his Active Defenses (I allow Extra Efforts in my game).

I'd certainly allow it in a cinematic game. It's the classic comic book, "Must. Escape. Before. It's. Too. Late!" text in a jagged thought balloon shtick.