Visualization, +blessing, +cursing, +link +reduced time

[starslayer]

Ok, so I have whipped up a fancy new probability alterer.

The alterer has ETS, and the following:

Visualization(blessing):
Blessing +100%
Link +20% (visualization Cursing)
Reduced time 6 +120%
Reflexive +40%

Visualization(Cursing):
Blessing +100%
Link +10% (visualization Blessing)
Reduced time 6 +120%
Reflexive +40%

Compartmentalized mind 3 (only for visualization).

Ok awesome, so this PC can (up to 4 times a round, or three times, and still take normal action) Bless self or others, OR Bless AND curse self or others.

However the part that were having trouble with is what portion of the MoS is applied to those rolls.

We have three potential candidates here:

1- 1:1 MoS, it's a blessing/curse and you only have to 'think good thoughts//think bad thoughts'.

Originally Posted by powers

You can improve the odds
of success of any task undertaken by a
sapient being just by “thinking good
thoughts” for a minute beforehand.
You must be able to see or touch the
beneficiary. When he rolls for his task,
he gains the Visualization bonus. You
can only have one bonus pending at a
time – for yourself or someone else –
but you can cancel this to assist anoth-
er task. +100% if you can affect your
rolls and those of others; +0% if you
can aid others but not yourself.

2- 1:2 can't clearly visualize

Originally Posted by Basic set

You get a +1 bonus to the action
you visualized for every point by
which you succeed – if the circum-
stances correspond almost exactly to
the visualization. If they are not quite
the same, which will almost always be true,
halve the bonus (minimum +1). And if
something is clearly different, divide the
bonus by 3 (no minimum). The GM can
assess a further bonus of up to +2, or a
penalty of any size, for a good or bad
description!

3- 1:3 (in combat)

Originally Posted by powers

Reduced Time 7
(+140%) to make this ability instanta-
neous. If so, it works in combat – but
it only affects one die roll per turn, and
the chaos of battle cuts the bonus to
1/3 usual.

My personal vote because its my PC is option 1, where every level of MoS gets applied to applicable rolls, because blessing and cursing seem to not care about how specific your visualization is simply 'think good thoughts' and 'think bad thoughts'.

However we are all interested in how ETS interacts with this (since ETS allows 'unlimited thinking time') and wither the 1:3 ratio for combat applies when blessing/cursing, or ETS is involved.

[Kalzazz]

My personal thought is that ETS does not directly influence rolls at all. Rolls follow the normal Visualization rules

I am often going to be the DM for this character, and I did suggest ETS to the player, because I had in mind things like 'I visualize dodging the rifle shot!' and things like that, as well as always going first (very handy for dodging the rifle shot, grenade or whatever)

However I am now sufficiently confused my next suggestion was 'go ask the forum and hope it can get untangled'

[aesir23]

I like the idea. It's a nice way to throw bonuses and penalties out to people.

A couple of thoughts:

I think the 1/3 effectiveness in Combat is absolutely necessary to make Visualization with Reduced Time balanced. It becomes too Munchkiny otherwise.

I think the penalties for not being able to clearly visualize are important too, although they should change somewhat for different sources or justifications of the power. Basically, the GM should be able to give you a penalty if he thinks you're trying to control events when you don't know what they are.

For example, it should be harder to say, "I think bad thoughts about Count Evil so that he does poorly at something this round" than "I visualize Count Evil missing his sword thrust." Because the later is dependent on a lucky guess. Penalties are sufficient, I wouldn't outright ban the former, you just need to roll lower for the same benefits: which, of course can be counteracted somewhat with Power Talent.

If don't like these restrictions on Visualization, then you can always buy 2 Afflictions: (Malediction, Reduce DX, IQ, and HT, Area Effect, Selective Area, Link) and (Malediction, Increased DX, IQ, and HT, Area Effect, Selective Area, Link) in order to get more consistent results. The mechanics are better in many ways: there's no limit to the number of dice rolls you can effect every turn: if someone's in your area you can attempt to give them a bonus or a penalty. On the other hand, they can resist. The difference in costs should be informative too...

[the_matrix_walker]

I have a character with this ability, it is exceptionally potent.

Combat situations should always use the reduced margin, regardless of ETS, it's just too good a gift for the price otherwise.

I don't see why these abilities are linked, as you will never be applying a bonus and a penalty to the same target.

Also, you might not need to buy it twice, despite it's original entry stating you do. They go on to say on Powers Page 105 under Selectivity, that if the GM allows, you can put Blessing and Cursing on the same Visualization advantage (with Selectivity).

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I have a character with this ability, it is exceptionally potent.

Combat situations should always use the reduced margin, regardless of ETS, it's just too good a gift for the price otherwise.

I don't see why these abilities are linked, as you will never be applying a bonus and a penalty to the same target.

Also, you might not need to buy it twice, despite it's original entry stating you do. They go on to say on Powers Page 105 under Selectivity, that if the GM allows, you can put Blessing and Cursing on the same Visualization advantage (with Selectivity).

Linked abilities must be used together, not on the same target. So the PC can literally 'shift luck', taking away from one person, and giving to another- the link makes this a single mental action (We've also decided that it uses a single roll; so that whatever MoS drained the luck is also the MoS that adds it).

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by aesir23

For example, it should be harder to say, "I think bad thoughts about Count Evil so that he does poorly at something this round" than "I visualize Count Evil missing his sword thrust." Because the later is dependent on a lucky guess. Penalties are sufficient, I wouldn't outright ban the former, you just need to roll lower for the same benefits: which, of course can be counteracted somewhat with Power Talent.

But with blessing/cursing all you need to do is 'think bad thoughts about count evil' and you get the FULL 1 for every MoS bonus/penalty (in non-combat situations)- you don't need to be able to dictact exact circumstance. It seems strange to me that when you then move to combat situations with blessing and cursing it drops right down to 1:3 (doubly so under the explanation of 'the chaos of combat' since you don't need to predict anything with blessing/cursing).

I might stat up comparison abilities for reference against this so that we can see if it really is a point croc to allow it to do 1:1

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by starslayer

I might stat up comparison abilities for reference against this so that we can see if it really is a point croc to allow it to do 1:1

I recommend this. If it's comparable in price to doing it with Afflictions, then go for it.

Personally, I think you're reading too much into the "thinking good thoughts" sentence. It seems too much like fluff text for me to take as the justification for such a major change in the visualization mechanics.

I also think you'll find that Visualization with Reduced time is fabulously affordable compared to Afflictions with comparable effect and that the 1/3 ratio is more than justified.

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by starslayer

However we are all interested in how ETS interacts with this (since ETS allows 'unlimited thinking time') and wither the 1:3 ratio for combat applies when blessing/cursing, or ETS is involved.

Kromm has said a +2 bonus to the roll would be fair enough.

You should always apply the 1/3 rule for combat.

[Figleaf23]

I don't really see why any different treatment should be assigned to Visualization because of having ETS.

I believe that the 'Visualization bonus' refered to in Powers means the benefit you calculate using the method in basic. It's not always 1:1, but situational subject to the tests of controllability of circumstantces.

The 1/3 for combat conditions is simply the same 1/3 for 'clearlly different' conditions described in the test in Characters.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by starslayer

Linked abilities must be used together, not on the same target. So the PC can literally 'shift luck', taking away from one person, and giving to another- the link makes this a single mental action (We've also decided that it uses a single roll; so that whatever MoS drained the luck is also the MoS that adds it).

That's very interesting. Personally I would require Cosmic in addition to the Link for it to work like that.

Am I wrong to think so? Can you target different aspects of a linked ability like that by default? Link got allot more detail in the last edition, but area affects, number of targets and whatnot were supposed to match. Would you at least need something like Enhanced Tracking to target two subjects simultaneously? If link can be used this way, and let's you get discrete targeting for each linked ability, that's far more potent than I blieved.

Ooooh I just decided what I want the next GURPS Power ups to be! Links!