[Spaceships] How does large-scale space warfare play out (without superscience)?

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The problem with a resonant opposing orbit is that the station defenses have a similar advantage against your spacecraft. A smart major power will also seed the rings with two dozen SM+8 automated defensive batteries camouflaged with ice armor. With ten tertiary missile batteries, six sections of ice armor, two VRF tertiary gun batteries, a control room, and a tactical comm/sensor array, they would carry 2,100 20cm missiles and 84,000 2.5 cm rounds each. Since the opposing orbital velocities would be 20 mps, even the 2.5 cm rounds would deal 6d×10+40 damage.

I should have explained what I had in mind better. No, the opposing orbit isn't an "I win" button vs. a superior force. The problem is dealing with Saturn's deep gravity well if missiles dominate space combat. In Earth orbit, a missile with 10 mps delta-V can practically travel in a straight line. Not so in low Saturn orbit. One solution would be to essentially put your missiles into a low-energy transfer orbit, but that gives the enemy a lot more time to respond, and might have other problems depending on how exactly missiles work in setting (personally as a GM I'd try to come up with an excuse to veto it for playability reasons).

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

If you can be patient and your target is in a fixed orbit you can design a drone for stealth and launch it from a distance on a space probe-like trajectory.

In specific Spaceships terms you need to avoid the case where your opposition is observing your launching vehicle. That grants automatic detection of any missiles launched by that ship (even that is probably a not entirely realistic assumption for play balance and simplification). If you don't see the launching ship when it launches you need to spot the missiles themselves with their much smaller SM.

Sadly, Spaceships is very harsh on stealth in space. With non-superscience stealth, the odds are stacked firmly against evading detection so thoroughly that you can deny your opponent point defense. The only niche I can find for stealth is allowing a high-thrust, low delta-V attack drone to intercept a low-thrust, high delta-V target, and only be detected once you're close enough that they can't evade intercept. You'll still almost certainly be detected at least a few minutes from impact, so the target still gets point defense.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

You'll still almost certainly be detected at least a few minutes from impact, so the target still gets point defense.

Only if they're sufficiently alert. If their alert status is sufficiently relaxed they won't have time to get the PD systems up.

[AlexanderHowl]

I imagine that most PD systems will be on automatic. If something gets within PD range (100 miles) going more than 0.5 mps relative unless exempted by a human controller, the computer would kick in the PD system. Since the passive scanners would always be on and since the computers would always be looking for stuff, the computer is going to have a fairly good chance of detecting anything approaching the station/defense platform.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Do you want an impactor to take over ten years to reach its destination?

I thought that was clearly implied by "if you are patient". If you spend 10 years (and a lot less money) to destroy soemthing your opponent spent 20 years building that looks like a win for you (or at least a sharp constraint on him).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

I


Sadly, Spaceships is very harsh on stealth in space.

The most harsh modifiers arise from power and/or propulsion systems that not only add their own modifers but negate stealth as well. For an impactor that needs neither of those stealth systems work at full effect.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The most harsh modifiers arise from power and/or propulsion systems that not only add their own modifers but negate stealth as well. For an impactor that needs neither of those stealth systems work at full effect.

True, that will cost you a net 13 modifier to the roll. But the +10 for plain sight, the +24 for being silhouetted against deep space, +8 or more for the array (that's for an SM+9 tramp freighter at TL10), and +5 for time spent all add up to making detection virtually guaranteed at close range. The modifiers I've just described add up to +39 even after subtracting -8 for TL10 stealth. That stealth penalty does matter at long range, but probably won't negate point defense.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

True, that will cost you a net 13 modifier to the roll. But the +10 for plain sight, the +24 for being silhouetted against deep space, +8 or more for the array (that's for an SM+9 tramp freighter at TL10), and +5 for time spent all add up to making detection virtually guaranteed at close range. The modifiers I've just described add up to +39 even after subtracting -8 for TL10 stealth. That stealth penalty does matter at long range, but probably won't negate point defense.

-39 for range is less than 40,000 miles or no more than 2000 seconds (33 minutes) at 20 miles per second. That +5 for time is for a half hour's scanning. You might end up detecting it just before impact (or maybe at impact).

So you want to gather up some more bonuses when you might be taking an unfamilairity penalty for never seeing anything like the impactor before.

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

So you want to gather up some more bonuses when you might be taking an unfamilairity penalty for never seeing anything like the impactor before.

If such impactors are a major danger, why wouldn't the observer have seen them before? In such senarios it should be an important part of training.

[AlexanderHowl]

And what accuracy is an object that takes 10 years to get to its destination? If such impactors are a common hazards, stations will randomly change their orbit every year by 0.1%, so that a stealth impactor will miss by hundreds of kilometers. In addition, a polity can just put its station 10 kilometers below the ice of one of the moons of Saturn, where any small and slow impactor will not damage them.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In addition, a polity can just put its station 10 kilometers below the ice of one of the moons of Saturn, where any small and slow impactor will not damage them.

Neutrino detectors are pretty low priority military targets in hard science settings.

More seriously, what do you envision a station with 10 km of ice between itself and space doing, and why is it a military target?