Weaker version of Empathy?

[PK]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Regarding #4, two of those get thrown away - both Body Language and Detect Lies.

No, Empathy doesn't help Body Language. It boosts three skills: Detect Lies, Fortune-Telling, and Psychology, and one of those skills would go away.

So I think it's something in the -50% to maybe -40% range.

The good news is that there's currently no official value for it, so cupbearer's players are unlikely to complain regardless of what value he or she ended up choosing. However, were an author to try introducing it as one, I would push back on anything close to -50%. At most, you're losing a third of the utility, a value which ranges from -25% for Accessibility to -33% for direct proportioning. (Which, now that I write it out like that, makes me more comfortable sliding down to -30% for this.)

[cupbearer]

So what is the verdict, oh great gurps sages? Should i use detect and limit accessibility or just provide a limitation to empathy (and for how much)?

Oliver.

[cupbearer]

...... Also - what is the range of empathy - its interesting, at what range are you "meeting someone" ?

[PK]

Originally Posted by cupbearer

So what is the verdict, oh great gurps sages? Should i use detect and limit accessibility or just provide a limitation to empathy (and for how much)?

For what you're asking, I'd use Empathy (Not to detect lies, -30%) [11].

Originally Posted by cupbearer

...... Also - what is the range of empathy - its interesting, at what range are you "meeting someone" ?

We haven't stated an explicit range for Empathy other than "in person" and "direct, personal contact." Kromm once suggested "within touching distance," but it would be more consistent with the way Empathy has been used (in various GURPS books) to read that as "near enough that you could walk over and touch the person with little effort." In other words, close enough that you can easily see, hear, and (if you wanted to) physically reach the subject -- directly, without aid and unimpeded by barriers and such. The specifics will vary by situation, but in a large, open room I'd say from 2 to 10 yards would be fair, depending on how crowded it is.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by PK

No, Empathy doesn't help Body Language. It boosts three skills: Detect Lies, Fortune-Telling, and Psychology, and one of those skills would go away.

Woops, confused with the Empath Talent.

Originally Posted by PK

The good news is that there's currently no official value for it, so cupbearer's players are unlikely to complain regardless of what value he or she ended up choosing. However, were an author to try introducing it as one, I would push back on anything close to -50%. At most, you're losing a third of the utility, a value which ranges from -25% for Accessibility to -33% for direct proportioning. (Which, now that I write it out like that, makes me more comfortable sliding down to -30% for this.)

I am advocating a 50%ish value because I think that losing the hard counter to Fast-Talk and Acting for the purposes of lying is a huge loss for this ability. In a campaign without Detect Lies and Body Language (the soft counters), it's an even more significant loss.

Originally Posted by PK

We haven't stated an explicit range for Empathy other than "in person" and "direct, personal contact." Kromm once suggested "within touching distance," but it would be more consistent with the way Empathy has been used (in various GURPS books) to read that as "near enough that you could walk over and touch the person with little effort." In other words, close enough that you can easily see, hear, and (if you wanted to) physically reach the subject -- directly, without aid and unimpeded by barriers and such. The specifics will vary by situation, but in a large, open room I'd say from 2 to 10 yards would be fair, depending on how crowded it is.

I tend to focus on the communication being direct. I.e. if you're human, then within speaking or signing distance. If you're an alien who communicates by flashing lights, then at whatever distance you can avoid needing mirrors or telescopes. If you're a blind and deaf human, then while you're in the same room so that you can at least sense the movement of the air as the other person walks (based on the biography of Skorokhodova).

[vicky_molokh]

There's a modifier that says 'like Empathy, except that range is restricted to two yards', so I'm generous about actual range.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

Anyone know book/page I could find this modifier? Tried searching basic+pu8 but no luck.

Discriminatory Smell, Basic Set.

[vicky_molokh]

Another thing in Psionic Powers that sheds light on Empathy:

Originally Posted by PP58

Emotion Sense
3/9/18/20 points for levels 1-4
[ . . . ]
At level 1, this ability requires skin-to-skin contact. At level
2, you can use it at normal range penalties (p. B550). This
becomes long-distance modifiers (p. B241) at level 3, and no
penalty for distance at all at level 4.
Statistics: Empathy (Contact Agent, -30%; Melee Attack, C,
-30%; Requires IQ vs. Will Roll, -10%; Telepathy, -10%) [3].
Further levels replace Contact Agent and Melee Attack with
Short-Range 2 [9], then add Remote and reduce Short-Range
to 1 [18], and then remove Short-Range [20].

[PK]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Another thing in Psionic Powers that sheds light on Empathy:

Specifically, the official take is that Empathy (with or without Remote) doesn't take range penalties (it's just that, without Remote, unmodified Empathy is limited to close, personal meetings) -- so Short-Range was needed to modify that.