01-14-2018, 06:42 PM | #51 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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It’s near future assumptions were dubious, even in 1981. The idea of speed making tanks harder to kill had already been rejected by the militaries of the world. The new generation of MBTs (Abrams, Leopard 2, Merkava) coming into service in 1981 were far better protected than previous MBTs, particularly against missiles. Missiles in Helltank were even more effective against MBTS than they were in the Yom Kippur War. Helltank is really an extrapolation of early 1970s military tech and that was fairly obvious even in 1981. A better sci-fi armored combat game was Grav Armor by Heritage. It had an interesting combat system - Player A moves while Player B fires. Last edited by tbeard1999; 01-15-2018 at 12:33 AM. |
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01-14-2018, 06:57 PM | #52 |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
I should also note that, for some reason, Helltank is insanely expensive and hard to find on the secondary market. We're talking more than minty, unpunched Ogre first printings. No, that game is no solution. Besides, I don't care about Helltanks; I want my Ogres!
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01-14-2018, 09:45 PM | #53 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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It may be in between moving and waiting or between waiting and moving...even though it moved for it's turn, or may not move next turn. Maybe they outmaneuvered the kill zone of the stationary "waiting" attacker in one of any various ways? They "got the jump on them", or tactically changed the situation to their advantage somehow for example. That's OGREs abstract nature showing. It's not literally that literal. For example to avoid being attacked as much as possible by a Howitzer a unit needs to move to just outside a Howitzers attack envelope before it moves again trying to get into attack range in order to get as close as possible before it attacks. Why can't that Howitzer attack the unit as soon as it's in range? Because that range is an abstraction. At least this is the way I always looked at it. It must be pointed out that both players are using the same rules. So just because someone else suffers from these rules by the other player should not mean there is something wrong with the rules because the other player can return the favor using the same rules. Which means the situations this abstract nature of OGRE creates Imho is what makes OGRE such a great game. It causes you to think and play differently than other games. Which gives the game the flavor of fighting battles in The Last War. Something we can't quite explain how it would all function based on Warfare that predates it but we can play in the game. That said, I do like the idea of using some sort of opportunity fire for OGRE. I'm partial to the "Opportunity Fire" as soon or as long as a enemy unit is in range by a unit that did not move.
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"So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars |
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01-15-2018, 07:12 AM | #54 |
Ogre Line Editor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
Ultimately, this is pretty much my view on it. I've never noticed anything wrong with it because I was never bogged down with reality. I take Ogre at face value, play the game by its rules, and just enjoy playing it; no justification needed.
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GranitePenguin Ogre Line Editor |
01-15-2018, 08:01 AM | #55 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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01-15-2018, 08:36 PM | #56 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orlando, FL. Please forgive me...
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
For those who have the OGRE Miniatures book (or the pdf nowadays) you know that they put in all sorts of LOS rules. Heck, in the playtest version there were even rules for firing arcs and what sections of an Ogre could be damaged depending on your firing position.
Frankly, much as I liked Ogre Miniatures (the book was beautiful and set the bar for miniature books to emulate for years to come) I simply didn't like all the additional rules. This is why I prefer the hex-based game. And I KNOW that sounds a tad hypocritical coming from the co-inventor of "OGRE Macrotures" back in the '90s (for those of you with memories of GEN-Con and a few DragonCons from 15 to 25 years ago.)
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"How do you know it's an OGRE Ninja if we can't see it... Oh, right..." John H. |
01-16-2018, 04:05 AM | #57 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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I never saw the Macrotures but man they looked like something I’d want... |
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01-16-2018, 04:34 AM | #58 |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
The only official Macroture was the Paneuro GEV, produced by Armorcast. It was gorgeous. CON_Troll also has a collection of custom-cast 1/35-scale models, including Ogres! Sadly, he's said they need repairs after years at conventions. I'm tempted to make him an offer on the lot. ;-)
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01-16-2018, 01:54 PM | #59 |
Ogre Line Editor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
LOS for lasers is one of the primary reasons most of my Ogre play stopped at G.E.V. I'll use the maps from shockwave, but very rarely will use either Lasers or CMs.
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GranitePenguin Ogre Line Editor |
01-16-2018, 04:35 PM | #60 |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
Yeah, they probably should've just had a normal (if long) range with the special ability "can shoot at cruise missiles at any range."
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