Rolls for players looking to fund a new major religion

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by tanksoldier

Agree with the above.

With the exception of Muhammad and Joseph Smith I can’t think of a religious founder who was actually trying to found a new religion.

Much more often people are successful with spinoffs.

Well, the OP says "new", not "unique".

Have a peruse of this list. If they've made it to Wikipedia, then I'd say they're at least somewhat notable. Immediately recognisable are some such as Pastafarianism and Falun Gong, and I'd say they were deliberate attempts at founding new religions.

I think the OP has a valid gaming question, it's just that we should settle some terms of reference. For example, being "realistic", that would rule out mind control magic, psionics and the Gadgeteer (Social Engineer) advantage.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

It's pretty self explanatory: What expenditures, skills and rolls would you require a player to do in order to achieve this kind of titanic feat?

Is this related to your character in another thread?

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=158007

She's not creating a new religion, she hijacking an existing one for her own objectives.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

I guess you also need to define "major" for the purposes of this exercise. Scientology, Aum Shinrikyo, Branch Davidians or the Raelians could all be considered "major" according to definitions of impact, popularity, wealth or infamy.

Probably. As the term is generally used there are 10 to 20 "major" religions in the world. If that's your standard, I'm doubtful it's possible to set out to found one and succeed.

For a looser definition, I think 2 to 3 million people, or 20-25 billion dollars, is enough to qualify you as "significant" - that puts you above a quarter of the world's states or in the same range as the world's few hundred largest corporations. That does seem something somebody very rich or skilled or charismatic could actually set out to build or take over with some expectation of success. There do seem to be people who manage to build companies that big, or attract fan bases that size, who don't owe it all to luck, though it certainly still plays a role.

[tanksoldier]

If they've made it to Wikipedia, then I'd say they're at least somewhat notable.

...because not just anyone can create or edit Wikipedia pages.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by copeab

She's not creating a new religion, she's hijacking an existing one for her own objectives.

While starting a new strand of Wicca isn't that hard, getting its members to devote themselves exclusively to one form is much harder. They tend to be quite alert to cult-like behaviour. And saying you're an incarnation of the triple goddess … not many of them are going to take that up unless you have extraordinary evidence.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by johndallman

While starting a new strand of Wicca isn't that hard, getting its members to devote themselves exclusively to one form is much harder. They tend to be quite alert to cult-like behaviour. And saying you're an incarnation of the triple goddess … not many of them are going to take that up unless you have extraordinary evidence.

As I noted on the character thread, I think the dedicated Wiccans will turn on her quickly. It's those on the fringe, or those not actively part of any religion, who are most likely to join her ranks.

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Ok, but what TL and era are we talking about as well? There's a difference between Stone Age shamanic religions and Transhuman Space memetic cults.

And which book do you mean? I think at least Infinite Worlds and Social Engineering cover this.

Yes! I´ve been using those but I thought there might be something else? TL8 btw :)

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by malloyd

This gets at the key problem here - the factors that allow something to become a major religion are essentially not under the control of the founder. That is there *are* no traits that will allow you to do this. There are traits appropriate for founding a minor cult, but it becoming a major religion is not under your control.

And in fact I think the number of people who have successfully founded a major religion approaches zero. With the possible exception of Muhammad I think all the founders of anything that even approaches major are dead for decades before their faiths could have been so characterized, and even he's dead before anybody outside Arabia, not exactly an important world power, considers Islam very significant. Some "reformers" have managed a little better, but even there its not so common. Movements take time to build to major, and once they start to do so they'll probably have escaped control of the founder anyway.

Couldn´t it be managed as an Amazing roll under Cultural Changes from the Infinite Worlds book?

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by copeab

As I noted on the character thread, I think the dedicated Wiccans will turn on her quickly. It's those on the fringe, or those not actively part of any religion, who are most likely to join her ranks.

which means we're back to trying to make a splinter religion.



Ok, I think this should be done in steps:
0) use the invention rules to invent a doctrine with philosophy or theology as the controlling skill.

1) Build a personal cult following around yourself through monthly leadership job rolls with a hefty penalty. Possibly require parallel public speaking rolls.

2) build an inner circle. Monthly teaching job rolls to get your missionaries, public speakers, and so forth to grasp the doctrine. give both sets of monthly rolls a small penalty for splitting your time.

3) Transition to cult larger than you personally can visit. roll the monthly leadership rolls, and add larger administration rolls as well. increase penalties with the size of what your holding together, and remember if you're not working full time on this, you get penalties.

4) Build a structure that can survive your death. Several skills should be rolled for this, and a large part of it is finding strong successors who won't break away and steal all your work. This is HARD, and should not be a single roll. Relevant skills include Law and Politics.
5) The GM should throw bumps your way the entire time. Scandals (real or imagined), controversies, criminal accusations, and protestors.

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by copeab

Is this related to your character in another thread?

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=158007

She's not creating a new religion, she hijacking an existing one for her own objectives.

Yep, I need a starting point though. I guess we will be able to expand it further from there, but we need the rule foundations.