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Old 11-07-2008, 12:49 PM   #31
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Default Re: Vehicles and Weapons from Fantasy giving me problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander
That being said, is there a chance of a Pyramid article on the subject, just to tide us over? As long as we had about ten basic ship designs, it would be easy enough to modify them slightly to represent nearly any vessel one could need.
I think the customary answer to this one is "if you submit one, it might run."
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:52 PM   #32
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Default Re: Vehicles and Weapons from Fantasy giving me problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander

What David and you would be capable of doing, however, is making sure that the numbers you arrive at through research fit with the internal logic of GURPS and there are no glaring contradictions.
I want to underline one point here: I have no clue about vehicles and never have. Even in 3e, I abdicated on them completely to let David take charge. I see those big tables in the Basic Set and go "Uh-HUH." Let's be very clear on the fact that my areas in 4e were mostly character design and combat. David will eventually finish all the projects for which he has contracts, and then he'd be welcome to work on vehicles-related stuff for e23, including retcons to current content. Until then, his priority is paying his bills, which means honoring the aforementioned contracts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander

I mean, in the time we've been waiting, Obama has gone from an obscure Senator to President of the United States. Surely whipping up a role-playing book can be accomplished as well. ;)
The main differences being:

1. Bank balance. We have to struggle much more than a senator does to pay the bills. Books with fewer stats and tables, and PDFs with fewer pages, are consistent with paying the bills in a way that sinking vast resources into a huge tome full of low-tech armor, vehicle, and weapon stats is not.

2. We're juggling lots of goals at once rather than approaching one huge goal with tunnel vision. GURPS is my top priority but not the company's. Inasmuch as it does receive resources, they're split among dozens of PDFs and several print books every year. And tech catalogs come second place after genre books and rulebooks, because they're less generic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander

That being said, is there a chance of a Pyramid article on the subject, just to tide us over?
It's certainly possible that Steven sees one or more vehicles-themed issues in the future of the new Pyramid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander

A PDF supplement would be even better, of course, but that's much more unlikely.
Not hardly! See this wish-list item. We're just waiting for writers to take up the challenge . . . which is really no less likely for e23 in general than it is for Pyramid in particular.
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:23 PM   #33
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Default Re: Vehicles and Weapons from Fantasy giving me problems

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Originally Posted by jspade
I think the customary answer to this one is "if you submit one, it might run."
Ah.

Unfortunately, I have several problems in that department.

a) I'm lazy enough to avoid work unless I get paid a decent wage. So far, I've never seen an RPG company that pays enough to appeal to anyone but a die-hard idealist (such as our dear Kromm, bless him). ;)

b) I'm not a specialist in ships of any nature. I can't sail and I can't row. I have read a book or two about the Royal Navy during the Napoleonic Wars and some on the nascent US Navy, but I'm basically clueless for other periods. In order to submit material up to GURPS standards (rather than the standards of the unfortunate table in Fantasy), I'd need a library of circa 20 new books and several weeks of research.

c) If I had the energy to sit down and write for real, I'd finish my thesis and get a degree. I've managed to put that off for almost a year now, always with the excuse that there is a lot to do at work or something else.
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:32 PM   #34
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Default Re: Vehicles and Weapons from Fantasy giving me problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
I want to underline one point here: I have no clue about vehicles and never have. Even in 3e, I abdicated on them completely to let David take charge. I see those big tables in the Basic Set and go "Uh-HUH." Let's be very clear on the fact that my areas in 4e were mostly character design and combat. David will eventually finish all the projects for which he has contracts, and then he'd be welcome to work on vehicles-related stuff for e23, including retcons to current content. Until then, his priority is paying his bills, which means honoring the aforementioned contracts.
Very good.

At least the 4e Vehicle writeups were simple, unlike the 3e Vehicles. Which I'm sure was a great book, but I never got into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
It's certainly possible that Steven sees one or more vehicles-themed issues in the future of the new Pyramid.
That would be lovely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
Not hardly! See this wish-list item. We're just waiting for writers to take up the challenge . . . which is really no less likely for e23 in general than it is for Pyramid in particular.
I was under the impression that this was only for modern, futuristic or fantasy vehicles; not real-world historical ones. The examples are all from the era of TL5-TL12, except possibly Fantasy War Wagons (which is pretty clearly not meant to draw on any real world data).

Are you saying that you'd consider Vehicles: Age of Sail Pirate Ships and Vehicles: Napoleonic War Naval Ships?
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:44 PM   #35
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Default Re: Vehicles and Weapons from Fantasy giving me problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander

I was under the impression that this was [...] not [for] real-world historical ones.
There is no such restriction in place. Indeed, the solicitation even refers to "vehicles of a particular era" (implying a historical period, presumably) and to stats "in line with [...] the GURPS Basic Set," the latter volume giving stats for several TL0-4 vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander

The examples are all from the era of TL5-TL12
Only because High-Tech and Ultra-Tech exist to give specific examples of those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander

Are you saying that you'd consider Vehicles: Age of Sail Pirate Ships and Vehicles: Napoleonic War Naval Ships?
Certainly. Ditto Vehicles: Bronze Age Chariots or Vehicles: Classical War Galleys or Vehicles: Carts and Wagons . . . All that's necessary is that vehicles be involved. Frankly, the TL0-4 ones are easier, as there's almost as much published data available as for TL5-8 vehicles, and the vehicles themselves are less technologically complex (I'd shudder to see Vehicles: Modern Multirole Stealth Jets!).
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:04 PM   #36
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Default Re: Vehicles and Weapons from Fantasy giving me problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander
Said waiting would be much easier if one actually had any idea when that fabled tome of Ice, Cabarets and Chicks would appear. I mean, in the time we've been waiting, Obama has gone from an obscure Senator to President of the United States. Surely whipping up a role-playing book can be accomplished as well. ;)
I can't resist this one: I'm sure with a $600 million dollar budget, Sean would be capable of a great many things more than he's currently doing, on similar time scales.


Quote:
In my personal experience, every game (fantasy or not) eventually involves travel by means of a vehicle. And every time this happens, it's an even chance that some player will ask the question: 'Can I sink/burn/blow it up?' ;)

I think this is entirely valid, but I also think that in many cases, if not most, you can probably wing it with gusto
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:16 PM   #37
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Default Re: Vehicles and Weapons from Fantasy giving me problems

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I think this is entirely valid, but I also think that in many cases, if not most, you can probably wing it with gusto
Well, HP are mass-derived for machines and DR goes with materials. If all that matters is breaking stuff, then all you need to know is "It's wooden and about 2 tons" (DR 2, HP 63), or "It's metal and about 700 lbs." (DR 6, HP 35). You'll be off by a few percent, I'm sure, but well within the tolerances of random damage rolls. The rules include similar guidelines for HT and SM. I can see how things like Hnd/SR, Move, Load, Range, and Cost need more research, though.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:27 PM   #38
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Default Re: Vehicles and Weapons from Fantasy giving me problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole
I can't resist this one: I'm sure with a $600 million dollar budget, Sean would be capable of a great many things more than he's currently doing, on similar time scales.
Certainly. But Obama didn't start with a huge budget. He gathered the money with promises, charm and oratory.

I'm sure Kromm can do something similar. I'll pledge a $100 dollars for him to start writing CCoI. If we get enough geeks to contribute, we might even keep him in Mountain Dew and Cheetos while he writes. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole
I think this is entirely valid, but I also think that in many cases, if not most, you can probably wing it with gusto
I did, I did. For years and years.

It's only that now my blasted players want to know if they can manuever around war galleys in their sailing ships, whether they can outsail a fleet of smaller cutters on the land breeze, etc. They've also been making noices about the relative costs of the different types of vessels and what spending X dollars on Y will get them in the way of benefits.

Basically, they're going to be fighting some naval battles in the near future. They have the opportunity to recruit more hands and re-fit the ship before they attempt to break the blockade around the city where they'll eventually be going, and I want to be able to answer their questions with something more than 'uh, can't we wait for Low-Tech?'
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:31 PM   #39
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Default Re: Vehicles and Weapons from Fantasy giving me problems

We have writers for Low-Tech. It'll get written. But it'll get written at the usual pace of a freelance book full of stats and research, and then playtested by people who will more likely nitpick than just play a few game sessions and test the product (as the term implies). This will take a lot of time. Paying me bribes, while cool, wouldn't affect that at all. And as my writing skills are strictly in the realm of crazy, made-up crap (look at the titles: Undead, Powers, Dungeon Fantasy, Action . . .), I'd be the last person you'd want writing Low-Tech. For the most part, I don't even like historical gaming, and I don't have much use for realism, either. That bias isn't important when I'm vetting stuff as a line developer, but it does limit what I'm able to write with ease.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:41 PM   #40
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Default Re: Vehicles and Weapons from Fantasy giving me problems

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Originally Posted by Kromm
We have writers for Low-Tech. It'll get written.
This is cool. Be sure to announce the identity of these writers as soon as it is allowed. I'm very curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
But it'll get written at the usual pace of a freelance book full of stats and research,
This is not so cool, but it's at least better than the product being subpar. I can buy all the inaccurate gamebooks I want from d20 third-party companies right now. I'll wait for a well-researched and exhaustively nitpicked GURPS book. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
and then playtested by people who will more likely nitpick than just play a few game sessions and test the product (as the term implies).
The two are not mutually exclusive. Quite often, the reason for nitpicking at something is that it causes problems in play or breaks the suspension of disbelief for a player or GM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
This will take a lot of time. Paying me bribes, while cool, wouldn't affect that at all. And as my writing skills are strictly in the realm of crazy, made-up crap (look at the titles: Undead, Powers, Dungeon Fantasy, Action . . .), I'd be the last person you'd want writing Low-Tech. For the most part, I don't even like historical gaming, and I don't have much use for realism, either. That bias isn't important when I'm vetting stuff as a line developer, but it does limit what I'm able to write with ease.
You did well with realism-based fighting in Martial Arts. But as long as you vet everything and it matches the quality of High-Tech*, I'll be happy.

*Ultra-Tech had a bit too many questionable stats and/or errors for my tastes.
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