[Ultra-Tech] Armor layering and other armor questions

[MatthewVilter]

I’ll get right into it:

(For simplicity I will be talking about TL 10 armor and its effect on piercing attacks to the torso.)

a) Why does heavy tailored Concealable Ballistic Armor have higher DR then Tactical Vests (without trauma plates).

b) Why does the Space Biosuit have a different DR split then the Bioplas Bodysuit?

c) Could you buy a Space Biosuit that is heavy tailored spec (i.e. DR 22)?

d) Why do Tactical Vests (with trauma plates) have higher DR then Clamshell Armor?

e) Can you (or should you be able to) use the trauma plates (from Tactical Vests) with Tacsuits or certain types of tailored armor?

f) Can you comfortably wear Concealable Ballistic Armor, Bioplas Armor, or a Tacsuit under a Tactical Vest, Clamshell, or Combat Hardsuit?

g) Can you layer tailored armor with itself? For example, I could wear long underwear, a button down shirt, and an overcoat or trench coat without DX penalty so is the same true for light, normal, and heavy tailored armor?

Thanks for your time!

[lexington]

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

a) Why does heavy tailored Concealable Ballistic Armor have higher DR then Tactical Vests (without trauma plates).

It's partially a rounding error.

The real question is why Heavy concealable armor is expected to provide the same protection for less weight. (Unless groin protection weighs nine pounds! Perhaps we know how Bio-Tech will alter our future.)

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

b) Why does the Space Biosuit have a different DR split then the Bioplas Bodysuit?

Another of UTs many typos?

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

c) Could you buy a Space Biosuit that is heavy tailored spec (i.e. DR 22)?

No, tailor the Bioplas Body and add two pounds.

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

d) Why do Tactical Vests (with trauma plates) have higher DR then Clamshell Armor?

That's a very good question.

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

e) Can you (or should you be able to) use the trauma plates (from Tactical Vests) with Tacsuits or certain types of tailored armor?

I would think so but you'd have to specially design them to fit the plates properly but that shouldn't cost anything extra.

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

f) Can you comfortably wear Concealable Ballistic Armor, Bioplas Armor, or a Tacsuit under a Tactical Vest, Clamshell, or Combat Hardsuit?

Probably not comfortably, no.

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

g) Can you layer tailored armor with itself? For example, I could wear long underwear, a button down shirt, and an overcoat or trench coat without DX penalty so is the same true for light, normal, and heavy tailored armor?

If you care a great deal about layering flexible armor you should buy Low-Tech to get the detailed rules for it there. Otherwise I think common sense is a good replacement for RAW.

[MatthewVilter]

Two more things:

h) How does armor DR stack with the DR from Subdermal Armor, Bioplastic Skin, and Reinforced Skeleton body modifications?

i) Can the Subdermal Armor, Bioplastic Skin, and Reinforced Skeleton body modifications be combined?

[MatthewVilter]

Originally Posted by lexington

It's partially a rounding error.

The real question is why Heavy concealable armor is expected to provide the same protection for less weight. (Unless groin protection weighs nine pounds! Perhaps we know how Bio-Tech will alter our future.)

LOL Okay, so really the Tactical Vest should just weigh a bit less?

Originally Posted by lexington

Another of UTs many typos?

I would think so too but it's not just the numbers that are different; the damage types are different as well.

Originally Posted by lexington

No, tailor the Bioplas Body and add two pounds.

Add 2 pounds to the Body Suit for the life support gear or add 2 pounds to the Space Biosuit for the thicker armor?

Originally Posted by lexington

I would think so but you'd have to specially design them to fit the plates properly but that shouldn't cost anything extra.

I agree.

Originally Posted by lexington

Probably not comfortably, no.

Except for light tailored armor right? I mean I would hope you can were clothes under them...

Originally Posted by lexington

If you care a great deal about layering flexible armor you should buy Low-Tech to get the detailed rules for it there. Otherwise I think common sense is a good replacement for RAW.

I happen to own Low-Tech so I will go check that out. The reason I am worried about just using common sense is it seems like you could get some pretty ridiculous DR numbers with very reasonable sounding outfits.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

LOL Okay, so really the Tactical Vest should just weigh a bit less?

I went to HT to look at what it should be but the results don't make any more sense. The assault vest with trauma plates weighs two pounds more and provides slightly less protection than a concealable vest with trauma plates.

I'm not sure what's going on here.

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

Add 2 pounds to the Body Suit for the life support gear or add 2 pounds to the Space Biosuit for the thicker armor?

Take the Bodysuit and tailor it then add two pounds of support gear.

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

Except for light tailored armor right? I mean I would hope you can were clothes under them...

Eh, this supports my feeling that rules for tailoring armor was not a great idea.

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

I happen to own Low-Tech so I will go check that out. The reason I am worried about just using common sense is it seems like you could get some pretty ridiculous DR numbers with very reasonable sounding outfits.

Well RAW tells you that you can simultaneously wear as many Tactical Suits as you can physically carry so I think common sense should be an improvement on that.

[lexington]

It occurs to me that the rules for tailoring weight ought to be revised a bit since DR is proportional to thickness and weight it proportional to volume.

If you make the armor 1.5 times heavier it should provide about 1.15 times the DR.
If you make the armor 0.5 the weight is should provide about 0.125 times the DR.

This actually ends up matching what is in the armor tables. A groin protector and some extra pockets could add up to about a pound.

It does get rid of usefully bullet resistant chemises but I suppose one has to make some sacrifices.

[MatthewVilter]

Originally Posted by lexington

I went to HT to look at what it should be but the results don't make any more sense. The assault vest with trauma plates weighs two pounds more and provides slightly less protection than a concealable vest with trauma plates.

I'm not sure what's going on here.

"It's like looking through a microscope at a cell culture and seeing a thousand dancing hamsters. It's impossible!" - Dr. McKay

Actually, based on what I know about High-Tech I would guess that this is an issue with concealable vest manufacturers overstating the usefulness of their vests or working to different standards than military assault vest manufacturers.

Originally Posted by lexington

Take the Bodysuit and tailor it then add two pounds of support gear.

Okay, sounds reasonable.

Originally Posted by lexington

Eh, this supports my feeling that rules for tailoring armor was not a great idea.

Here's an idea: If Concealable Ballistic Armor is based on “shear thickening fluid” maybe it would not be as effective when layered under other armor?

Originally Posted by lexington

Well RAW tells you that you can simultaneously wear as many Tactical Suits as you can physically carry so I think common sense should be an improvement on that.

>_<

[MatthewVilter]

Originally Posted by lexington

It occurs to me that the rules for tailoring weight ought to be revised a bit since DR is proportional to thickness and weight it proportional to volume.

If you make the armor 1.5 times heavier it should provide about 1.15 times the DR.
If you make the armor 0.5 the weight is should provide about 0.125 times the DR.

How are you getting those numbers? If you are treating the armor as a normal volume you should use cube root of weight to find thickness which does give ~1.15 for heavy but it looks like you are just cubing weight for the light armor here.

Really though surface area (height and width, if you will) doesn't need to change for armor so thickness can be proportional to weight.

Originally Posted by lexington

It does get rid of usefully bullet resistant chemises but I suppose one has to make some sacrifices.

LOL

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by lexington

Well RAW tells you that you can simultaneously wear as many Tactical Suits as you can physically carry so I think common sense should be an improvement on that.

IMHO, RAW tells me, you cannot wear a Tactical Suit under anything. Basic Set: Characters, pg286, Combining and Layering Armor "you can only layer armor if the inner layer is both flexible and concealable."
A Tactical Suit may be flexible but I don't think it's concealable.

But I love the other ideas... Skull DR47 and then you put on a helmet:D

[MatthewVilter]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

But I love the other ideas... Skull DR47 and then you put on a helmet:D

Yeah. >_< (I'm trying to GM here)