Sacrificial Dodge

[Seamonster]

Does a successful sacrificial dodge (p. B375) actually move you a step between the attacker and your ally? If so, and the attacker and ally are adjacent (facing each other), in what hex do you move to?

I did a search of the forums, but could not find the answer. Thanks in advance.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Seamonster

Does a successful sacrificial dodge (p. B375) actually move you a step between the attacker and your ally? If so, and the attacker and ally are adjacent (facing each other), in what hex do you move to?

A success at the active defense roll will place you between the attacker and his intended target [you can only attempt it if you are close enough for a Step to take you there]. I suppose that in the case where the two combatants are in adjacent hexes, the sacrificer (having succeeded his defense roll) would get to choose which hex he wanted to end up in.

[SuedodeuS]

Put them wherever is most dramatically effective. Is it a sacrifice so the other character can keep fighting? Then they end up in the target's hex, so that they can be caught and either admonished or die in the character's arms. Is it meant to allow the other to escape? Then they end up in the attacker's hex, possibly impaled, holding him off while the others escape.

More seriously, I believe there is a rule somewhere about not being able to enter into close combat with someone with a Retreat (which is what a sacrificial dodge is... kind of). Thus, the character would have to enter his ally's hex (where he is more welcome). Alternatively, give the player a choice - while normally you can't enter an enemy's hex with a Retreat, the fact you are basically jumping on his sword makes a special case. Another alternative would be to disallow him from making the sacrifice - the two are simply too close together (if he really wants to save his ally, he'll need to do a sacrificial dodge and drop instead).

[Ultraviolet]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

<snip> Another alternative would be to disallow him from making the sacrifice - the two are simply too close together (if he really wants to save his ally, he'll need to do a sacrificial dodge and drop instead).

Errr...can you make a Sacrificial Dodge and Drop? AFAIK a Dodge is getting out of the way, but a Sacrificial Dodge is really a Block using one's own body. And a Dodge and Drop is versus missile attacks, right?
So how can you help your buddy by throwing yourself to the ground between him and his foe? Doesn't the Sacrifice part of this already involve willingly impaling yourself om his sword?
In the same way a Sacrificial Dodge and Retreat isn't possible IMHO.

If what you want really is to draw the foe's attantion away from your buddy and present yourself as an easier target, you should've started the round before. I dunno, use a feit or a deceptive attack to get his ttention, ot simply engage him and give your buddy time and space to get away.
But without this set-up, there really isn't snything else to to than to take the blow yourself...

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

Errr...can you make a Sacrificial Dodge and Drop? AFAIK a Dodge is getting out of the way, but a Sacrificial Dodge is really a Block using one's own body. And a Dodge and Drop is versus missile attacks, right?
So how can you help your buddy by throwing yourself to the ground between him and his foe? Doesn't the Sacrifice part of this already involve willingly impaling yourself om his sword?

A sacrificial Dodge and Drop represents basically tackling your ally to protect him. The rules for it are on B377. You see it frequently in movies and other media. Normally, Dodge and Drop is only allowed against ranged attacks, but MA allows it for use against melee at a -2 penalty (netting a +1 bonus). Note that this is a poor tactic for long-term, as it leaves you and your ally prone, but if there isn't enough room to step between them this may be your only option.

[Seamonster]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

If what you want really is to draw the foe's attantion away from your buddy and present yourself as an easier target, you should've started the round before. I dunno, use a feit or a deceptive attack to get his ttention, ot simply engage him and give your buddy time and space to get away.
But without this set-up, there really isn't snything else to to than to take the blow yourself...

I'm not interested in "getting a foe's attention away from an ally." I'm working on my own, detailed combat cards, and want to understand, with tactical combat and hexes, where you [can] move when you make a Sacrificial Dodge. And, are you prevented from making such a move if there is no where to go other than an enemy's hex or an ally's hex?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

So how can you help your buddy by throwing yourself to the ground between him and his foe?

Hand grenades are probably the most common use of sacrificial dodge a real life, and it figures on a goodly percentage of posthumous citations for bravery.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Seamonster

I'm not interested in "getting a foe's attention away from an ally." I'm working on my own, detailed combat cards, and want to understand, with tactical combat and hexes, where you [can] move when you make a Sacrificial Dodge. And, are you prevented from making such a move if there is no where to go other than an enemy's hex or an ally's hex?

B391 says you cannot Retreat into an occupied hex, and Sacrificial Dodge is basically a special case of Retreat, so I'd say the RAW points to no. Of course, with a yard between your ally and enemy, there is (just) enough room to get yourself in there. As a houserule, you could allow a character to using Sacrificial Dodge to go into his ally's hex. This might be less efficient - you suffer a -1 to your attempt, and if you fail but your ally succeeds at his defense, you get hit by the attack (just as though you succeeded at your Sacrificial Dodge).

[Seamonster]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

B391 says you cannot Retreat into an occupied hex, and Sacrificial Dodge is basically a special case of Retreat, so I'd say the RAW points to no.

I don't understand where the RAW states that Sacrificial Dodge is a special case of Retreat. The rules are listed under Dodge (not Retreat, or even Active Defense Options), and it merely says you "cannot combine [Sacrificial Dodge] with a retreat." In fact, it even says to "Use the ordinary rules for a dodge" preceding that.

I apologize in advance if I seem aggressive about this, but I merely wish to understand the RAW correctly. That said, I would rule that one cannot do a Sacrificial Dodge into an enemy's hex.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Seamonster

I don't understand where the RAW states that Sacrificial Dodge is a special case of Retreat. The rules are listed under Dodge (not Retreat, or even Active Defense Options), and it merely says you "cannot combine [Sacrificial Dodge] with a retreat." In fact, it even says to "Use the ordinary rules for a dodge" preceding that.

I apologize in advance if I seem aggressive about this, but I merely wish to understand the RAW correctly. That said, I would rule that one cannot do a Sacrificial Dodge into an enemy's hex.

To be honest, I don't think the RAW ever does equate Sacrificial Dodge and Retreat. However, both involve taking a Step outside of your turn in response to an attack. Additionally, Retreat can only be done once per turn, and Sacrificial Dodge explicitly states you cannot Retreat afterward (implying it "uses up" your Retreat for that turn). These imply to me that Sacrificial Dodge is indeed a special case of Retreat, wherein you are essentially trading the +3 to get in the way of an attack (rather than getting out of the way).
An alternative reading would be that you can Retreat and then later (in the same round) make a Sacrificial Dodge. That doesn't seem right at all (as you are getting an additional two Steps), but there isn't anything in the RAW against it.