[Spaceships] TL9 Military Spaceships

[Langy]

Absorbing all the light really isn't the best way to hide a ship in space - the primary problem in hiding is the generation of heat, and absorbing light would just increase that problem. What you'd want to do is remove heat from the ship, not add it.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by safisher

Seems that the power requirements of ships could be kept very small if light hitting it were converted into heat..

On the contrary, the problem is not keeping warm, but keeping cool.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Langy

We're actually talking about a 400,000 mile radius sphere, centered upon the target. With one rock per 100,000 mile radius sphere, that's 64 asteroids within range. That's not just three hiding places - that's sixty-four hiding places, each of which is several hundred feet in diameter and thus quite a bit larger than the roughly forty-five foot long Menippe.

Sixty-four still isn't a lot, especially when computers get involved. However, you may well have a point that the situation isn't quite as dire as I had originally guessed.

[Langy]

Sixty-four isn't too many to track, sure - but if you're blasting every single rock you pass, you'll be spending more time shooting rocks than moving. Not to mention the fact that a several-hundred-foot asteroid could easily take a few laser blasts without even harming the missile boat hiding on it, considering how small it is compared with the size of the 'roid. If they can't detect the ship on the roid, and they can't efficiently blast all the roids out of the sky, then you can still easily place an ambush.

[safisher]

Originally Posted by Langy

Absorbing all the light really isn't the best way to hide a ship in space - the primary problem in hiding is the generation of heat, and absorbing light would just increase that problem. What you'd want to do is remove heat from the ship, not add it.

And if the metamaterials are also working on the IR signature?

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Langy

Sixty-four isn't too many to track, sure - but if you're blasting every single rock you pass, you'll be spending more time shooting rocks than moving. Not to mention the fact that a several-hundred-foot asteroid could easily take a few laser blasts without even harming the missile boat hiding on it, considering how small it is compared with the size of the 'roid. If they can't detect the ship on the roid, and they can't efficiently blast all the roids out of the sky, then you can still easily place an ambush.

Well, at 100 mps, assuming 10 mps in reserve for maneuvering, thats 45 mps cruising velocity. It'd take slightly over 12 three minute combat turns to travel 100,000 miles, the distance between your rocks. And once you're up to your cruising speed, there's not a whole lot else to do. I don't see a merchant ship doing it(I generally assume merchant ships will only have 1-2 PD lasers for asteroids/debris they can't dodge), but I can easily see a combat ship deciding to clear out the debris in an envelope around it, especially a carrier with a screen of combat craft deployed in front of it.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by safisher

And if the metamaterials are also working on the IR signature?

Well, the article you linked converts light to heat. What does the advanced metamaterial convert heat to? If its anything detectable, it's just changing the spectrum in which the ship is the most easily detected.

[safisher]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Well, the article you linked converts light to heat. What does the advanced metamaterial convert heat to? If its anything detectable, it's just changing the spectrum in which the ship is the most easily detected.

Heh, I suspect it will require a hull with some sort of multispectral material(s). But clearly it will route the energy in some desirable manner, say, straight away from the enemy. With a big umbrella cloaking you in the front, and your hull converting heat into light and pushing it out the back (or directing it into your laser battery) who knows. Maybe it will be converted to gravitons for reactionless propulsion? I have no idea.

But clearly we are in a very early stage for this type of thing. Who can possibly say with certainty "cloaking in space is superscience" when the advances of metamaterials are continually moving forward?

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by safisher

I have no idea.

Quite. The things you suggest are ruled out or drastically limited by the laws of thermodynamics, particularly the Second Law.

Who can possibly say with certainty "cloaking in space is superscience" when the advances of metamaterials are continually moving forward?

This is not a materials problem. It is a thermodynamics problem.

[safisher]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

Quite. The things you suggest are ruled out or drastically limited by the laws of thermodynamics, particularly the Second Law.

"There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will." Albert Einstein

"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible." Lord Kelvin.

I think you may miss what I am saying -- not that it's possible now, or that we even understand how it may work in the future, only that its very nearsighted to say that something is impossible. Science progresses very rapidly, and history shows us that time and again the impossible is possible. Perhaps there will be challenges to the second law? Perhaps it will stand. Who can say with certainty?