[Magic][WIP]Homebrew Skill-based Magic

[NocTempre]

I'm currently designing a magic as skills system and was wondering if anyone else approached it the same way. DISCLAIMER, this is a sample of a WIP.

Core conceit is the assumption that magic is energy (typed damage) and the skills are how you manipulate it. Magery (abbr. MG) is added to the core attributes, with a default of 0 and costs 10pt/lvl. The only penalty for 0 magery is complete obliviousness to mana and no ability to cast spells, even if you have them trained. This skill is the “Strength” of magic attacks. Magery also may have a secondary characteristic of Essence (abbr. ES) which is equal to MG and can be bought higher independently at 3pt/lvl. For demonstrational purposes, magic damage uses the ST damage table, with MG controlling the damage. Thrust is equivalent to Concentrated and Swing is equivalent to Unbound. My goal is to add a lot of the options martial characters have, especially in enforcing MAD. A magical attack would follow the same sequence as all other attacks. 1 Ready, 2 Attack, 3 Damage.

Important note, the modifiers are potency modifiers, not damage, and a 1d can be traded for a +4 potency at any time and vice-versa; each 1d is equal to one Effect Point. 1 effect point can be spent on 1d+potency HP damage, the type is always energy (type); unfortunately the GM will have to do some work defining how that interacts with armor on a setting basis. 2 effect points can do 1d secondary attribute damage, with a quick contest of MG vs target resist (usually HT) applying the potency bonus to your roll. For 3 EP, you may do 1d damage to a primary attribute. If you fail but but by less DoF, it still does 1 point per die. If you succeed but the target wins the contest, there is no effect. If you critically fail, YOU receive the damage instead. Which magics can attack which attributes is always up to GM. Every EP spent costs one ES. An area can have a mana rating from +3 to -3, this ES “bonus” is always spent first, followed by held equipment, and finally a users own ES. A null mana zone means no magic can be cast (but essence is still drained if attempted!), and a high mana zone means even those with MG 0 can attempt to cast spell, and no ES cost. Zones are only described if they deviate from the norm and the PC could perceive that. Nominal mana level is campaign dependant.

A quick example: A paladin wishes to smite evil! She rolls against Prayer (skill, IQ/VH) and succeeds. Since she wishes to deliver through her sword (which is readied), she then attacks with Broadsword (DX/A) and hits. The vile foe fails to dodge and receives the damage of sword with the smite evil kicker. The magic adds Concentrated of Divine damage. Because the fight is on hallowed ground (high mana for Divine) there is no essence cost.

A slightly more detailed example: A Fire Wizard attacks by throwing a fireball. He rolls against Pyromancy (skill, IQ/H) or Elementalist! (skill, IQ/VH, wildcard) with the magic missile technique at a cost of -2/-4 (former for manipulating existing fire, latter for creating); he attempts Fast Draw [magic missile] to do so instantly (skill, DX/A)*. Because this is a magic missile**, he could concentrate for up to an additional 3 turns to boost his effective Magery. He then hurls the attack at an enemy using Thrown Weapon [magic missile] (skill, DX/E) with the appropriate range penalties. The target may attempt a dodge***, block, or parry. Non class magics (i.e.voodoo, psionics, etc) cannot attempt a parry, but they may still be eligible for blocking (divine and infernal trump elemental in this setting, +3 DB against elemental attacks, counts as shield if active, cannot be cast as a reaction; coincidentally, this my rationale for auras/wings of light or hellfire). A suitable magic weapon may attempt to parry, or a suitable magic skill. A magical parry follows the 3+half skill (drop fractions) standard. A parry with a skill in the same family (fire for this case) is at -3, the same class (any unlisted elemental here) at no penalty, and the opposing family (ice or water) is at a +2 bonus. The attack successfully hits and the wizard has a magery skill of 14, which gives the Unbound value of 2EP+0. He also has a staff that adds +2 to all unbound fire attacks (and has a pool of 3 ES remaining). The player decides the fireball is especially hot, so he converts 2EP+2 to 3EP-2 and declares it will do 1d HP damage and 1d-2 Fat damage. The mana zone is Ice+2, so Fire is at -2 and the spell costs 5 ES. The staff is drained and the wizard pays the remaining 2. With a roll of 13 (fail by 1), 1d burning damage and 1 Fat damage ultimately apply.

* Not every technique has a fast draw, GM's discretion on difficulty, core attribute and availability
** This is somewhat of a misnomer, a magic missile is a magical "grenade", a beam would be functionally more similar to a mundane missile attack (you aim, increasing effective DX instead of MG)
*** A beam attack would evoke the Restricted Dodge rules, which could deny a dodge

Damage needs some serious refinement because it adds too many rolls but the concept of EP I like. Ultimately it needs it’s own progression table. I don’t know how to avoid the sign flipping on potency for a resist roll without an extra “attack” roll. Open to advice. Techniques are how you shape or apply the energy, normally a necessity without direct contact with the target. You could just as easily change damage to negative and be casting buffs for yourself or the party, but I’d need to figure out a system for durations. In a cinematic campaign, attribute damage should probably be temporary that wears off after basic first (magical) aid to avoid serious downtimes. If a certain magic can do special effects, you just need to determine an EP cost (and possibly an advantage to learn it).
Just converting staple spells at MG 14
Sleep: 1d fat (chi)
Blinding Light: 1d Per (divine)
Acid Fog: 2d cor (earth)
Flaming Arrow: 1d bur (fire)
Fright: 1d will (psi)

That’s a lot of flexibility, but why would you pick magic over a sword and bow for a whole lot less? Well first, magic can be in addition to those skills, as a rider to a normal attack in some cases. It’s much harder to disarm you of. You can likely bypass traditional defenses. Furthermore, you can learn “specific spells” by spending points on techniques, or even combinations, which can make styles more like martial arts. It also makes equipment matter more, since “proper tools” are just as necessary for the mage as the warrior. Finally, it's possible to cast magic cooperatively, although the limitations of which I haven't worked out yet (is it a simple aid? or do they add? where is the cap?).

Please remember this is an early draft and I’m definitely open to advice, criticism, and help balancing/playtesting. Also if anything is unclear don't hesitate to ask!

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by NocTempre

IMagery (abbr. MG) is added to the core attributes, with a default of 0 and costs 10pt/lvl. The only penalty for 0 magery is complete obliviousness to mana and no ability to cast spells, even if you have them trained. This skill is the “Strength” of magic attacks.

Skill? Do you mean something like "Magery is used to calculate the damage of magical attacks in the same way as Strength is used for physical attacks"?

Thrust is equivalent to Concentrated and Swing is equivalent to Unbound.

You haven't given us any clue as to what "Concentrated" and "Unbound" describe.

Important note, the modifiers are potency modifiers, not damage, and a 1d can be traded for a +4 potency at any time and vice-versa; each 1d is equal to one Effect Point.

Nor have you explained the concept of "potency". From here on, the description becomes basically incomprehensible, because I don't know what your words mean, and you leave a lot to the GM without providing explanations of the questions he has to answer.

[NocTempre]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Skill? Do you mean something like "Magery is used to calculate the damage of magical attacks in the same way as Strength is used for physical attacks"?

Yes

You haven't given us any clue as to what "Concentrated" and "Unbound" describe.

Concentrated = Trust and Unbound = Swing, because I am doing a label swap on the strength table (Basic p16) as a placeholder as I develop my ideas.

Nor have you explained the concept of "potency". From here on, the description becomes basically incomprehensible, because I don't know what your words mean, and you leave a lot to the GM without providing explanations of the questions he has to answer.

Potency is the modifier on the final step, either damage, or an "overcome resistance" to apply attribute damage (that the target still gets a chance to resist). It is loudly admitted as the clunkiest and least intuitive part and clearly points to needing a new, custom table.

Relationships between energy sources will have to be up to the GM, because that is such a foundational part of many settings. I will present the setting I am making in more detail though:

Fundamental Forces: Light/Divine, Chi/Human, Dark/Infernal
Elemental Forces: Fire, Earth, Wind, Water, Ice, Lightning
Sympathetic Forces: Power Words, True Name, Voodoo

Light and Dark trump all other forces except Chi, they can outright block, not just parry, elemental, and are immune to sympathetic. Chi is the only magic that a MG 0 human can attempt untrained, and only if a zone provides enough essence.

Elemental Forces are in three groups. Group A is Fire and Earth, Group B is Water and Ice, and Group C is Wind and Lightning. Group A opposes group C. Group B opposes group A. And Group C opposes group B. Very Rock-Paper-Scissors relationship.

Sympathetic Forces are playing with reality. You generally can't use these offensively without intimately knowing your foe, but they can have the hardest to resist effects. You can't throw this energy around in energy attacks, but you can use them to transfer energy between objects which can be just as useful. There is a mythical relationship between Fundemental and Sympathetic magic, but this doesn't affect gameplay.

[mlangsdorf]

I've written up some similar concepts here:
http://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com...ook-magic.html

You should poke through and see if there's anything you want to steal.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by NocTempre

Concentrated = Thrust and Unbound = Swing, because I am doing a label swap on the strength table (Basic p16) as a placeholder as I develop my ideas.

Yes, but you aren't giving us any idea of why you chose those words. They seem to imply something about your model of how magic works, but there aren't enough clues to work out what you mean to imply.

Potency is the modifier on the final step, either damage, or an "overcome resistance" to apply attribute damage (that the target still gets a chance to resist). It is loudly admitted as the clunkiest and least intuitive part and clearly points to needing a new, custom table.

That still isn't telling me anything coherent about either its effect in the mechanics or its meaning in the metaphysics.

Relationships between energy sources will have to be up to the GM, because that is such a foundational part of many settings. I will present the setting I am making in more detail though:

Good, because without an example, your ideas will definitely remain unclear. The list of relationships helps a bit. Now please do your examples again, spelling out every detail and relationship involved. Much of what seems obvious to you as the creator is entirely obscure to everyone else.

[dataweaver]

Instead of swing/thrust damage, consider using the Damage modifier from the Appendix of Thaumatology as the basis for your system. More generally, instead of a 10-based MG trait that seeks to emulate the mechanics of ST, consider a zero-based variant of Magery where every spell has a “primary parameter” (one of the Magical Scope Parameters from the aforementioned Appendix) that’s read as how many levels of Magery you have rather than skill penalty, margin of success, or energy cost.

Alternately, use the energy cost modifiers from Ritual Path Magic for this, as said modifiers are essentially a refinement and expansion of the aforementioned Magical Scope Parameters.

[Walrus]

If all your magic is about dealing damage, especially in addition to weapon damage, I'd encourage looking at Imbuements before trying to invent something new.

[NocTempre]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Instead of swing/thrust damage, consider using the Damage modifier from the Appendix of Thaumatology as the basis for your system. More generally, instead of a 10-based MG trait that seeks to emulate the mechanics of ST, consider a zero-based variant of Magery where every spell has a “primary parameter” (one of the Magical Scope Parameters from the aforementioned Appendix) that’s read as how many levels of Magery you have rather than skill penalty, margin of success, or energy cost.

Alternately, use the energy cost modifiers from Ritual Path Magic for this, as said modifiers are essentially a refinement and expansion of the aforementioned Magical Scope Parameters.

Looks like I need to pick up some more books, thanks for the tips. Someone needs to make a wiki of this stuff, so many nooks and crannies!

Originally Posted by Walrus

If all you magic is about dealing damage, especially in addition to weapon damage, I'd encourage looking at Imbuements before trying to invent something new.

I will take a closer look. But it is definitely not all about dealing damage, what I'd want potentially is an "imbue weapon" skill but how to check without clumsiness? Perhaps a magical alternative to "fast draw"?