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Old 01-30-2023, 08:29 AM   #1
Silverblade
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Germany
Default GCA, Alternate Form and limitations

Hi all. :)

I'm trying to crete a character in GCA, and I'm running into a few problems, and maybe you are able to help me.....

So, suppose a Monster Hunter-like character with about 500 points. He has an alternate form that gives him some advantages (Some IT;DR, some Super ST (Super Effort), some Extra DX, Extra HT - thhings like that) worth about another 500 points.

He's only able to stay in form for about 10 minutes at a time (Maximum Duration, Powers p. 111) until the form deactivates. Now I know about the 15 + (90% of form cost) enhancement and limitation cost only applying to the 15 point base cost instead of the full cost from the FAQ (point crock).

However, I feel like if the character gets to use the advantages of the form only for 10 minutes (or so, Maximum duration 10 minutes), I should apply the limitation (-50%) to all the advantages "inside" the Alternate Form (as well as the disadvantages?). I am familiar with the Temporary Disadvantage limitation as well, but the only one that really applies here is the Bloodlust, since it requires a self control roll (which is automatically failed?).

Now, this transformation comes at cost: While in form he has Bloodlust (-10), Vulnerability (Holy Artifacts x2, -10) and Weakness (Holy Places, 1d per 1 minute -20).

(Ideally, this would *also* be limited to three times a day instead of the 5 minute break the Maximum Duration limitation suggests)

So far, I created a "Parent Item" in GCA where I put all the advantages and disadvantages, just to get them on the character sheet - but I know this is far from accurate.

Thanks for your help. :)
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Old 01-30-2023, 03:01 PM   #2
johndallman
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Default Re: GCA, Alternate Form and limitations

Moved to the correct forum.
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Old 01-30-2023, 03:01 PM   #3
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: GCA, Alternate Form and limitations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverblade View Post
I am familiar with the Temporary Disadvantage limitation as well, but the only one that really applies here is the Bloodlust, since it requires a self control roll (which is automatically failed?).
I can't really comment on GCA, but technically you could apply all three as Temporary Disadvantages to the traits you get (which I'd bundle together into a single Metatrait if taking this approach), which would mean that while you are using the boost you take double Injury from holy artifacts, suffer 1d Injury per minute when in a holy place, and need to make a Self-Control Roll anytime Bloodlust would crop up. If you want the Self-Control Roll to automatically fail, that actually is an option, introduced in Powers and reprinted in Zombies - it makes the Disadvantage worth 2.5x as much as normal (for Bloodlust, that would be [-25]).

But if you're the GM (or the GM agrees with you) and feel Alternate Form with Maximum Duration applied to the cost of the whole thing is the way to go, you can certainly do that. If you want the Bloodlust to automatically be failed, such that the character will not spare enemies while in this (presumably-demonic) form, as above that would be worth [-25] as part of the template.
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Old 01-30-2023, 03:53 PM   #4
Armin
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Location: Portland, OR
Default Re: GCA, Alternate Form and limitations

I don't really see a GCA question here, this looks like a question about how to handle this in GURPS.
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Old 01-31-2023, 08:07 AM   #5
Silverblade
 
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Default Re: GCA, Alternate Form and limitations

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Originally Posted by Armin View Post
I don't really see a GCA question here, this looks like a question about how to handle this in GURPS.
It's both, really, which is why I posted it in GURPS originally. :)

But since you're the guy who made it: I would like to have the Alternate Form stats printed somewhere on the Character sheet, not just "Alternate Form: Demon (270 points)" but with all the traits listed like in GURPS books, like "Body of Air" in Basic Set - a small paragraph of all the Advantages/Disadvantages next to the "Alternate Form" Entry in GCA (or rather, the printout/pdf of the character sheet).

I read on here the best way to do it would be to create a new character with all the traits and save that as a template - but I'm not sure what to do then. I need to load this template as a Data file? And then just add an alternate form advantage with that template? Would GCA then print all the contained traits next to Alternate form?

I also didn't get the added Super ST to work (so, the AF adds some Super ST, which the base form does not have). GCA usually prints another stat block with a Super ST damage listing, but in this case it only prints some kid of default value (thr 1d-3, sw 1d-2, and so on). I tried creating a character with the "full" Super ST, going to the full edit -> advanced tab, and copy the damage values there - but I guess GCA recalculates those values when I click "OK", since the result is the same.

What I did for the alternate form was that I added a "Parent Item" and just listed all the traits under it, and renamed the parent item "Alternate Form (Demon)" - which it really isn't. :)

In the meantime I figured out how to add the Temporary Disadvantage limitation on the advantages in GCA - I'm just not sure if I did it right, since I *think* only one advantages in the bundle can get the temporary disadvantage limitation, but this again is more like a general GURPS question. :)

Anyway, I enjoy GCA a lot, the kind of characters I like to build would be a nightmare to do manually/on paper. So thanks. :)
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Old 01-31-2023, 09:18 AM   #6
Silverblade
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Default Re: GCA, Alternate Form and limitations

.....aaaaaaand I just realized, there's a GCA5 now! :)

Downloaded, playing around with it now, seems there's even a transform manager, maybe that helps me do what I'm trying to do. :)
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Old 01-31-2023, 10:34 AM   #7
Armin
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Default Re: GCA, Alternate Form and limitations

(Everything I talk about here is for GCA5.)

Okay. Yes, if you want to have your alternate form listed with all the traits that it includes, then your best option IMO is indeed to do a parent item, with all the child items put under that. That's how folks do custom race templates and such, and that's what that is.

But that only lists/combines all the traits into a single listing. It won't do the point costs for the Alternate Form advantage. You'll still need to cost that out yourself, based on the total cost of the "Alternate Form (Demon)" parent item and the base cost.

What the Transform Manager lets you do is easily group any traits into This Form or That Form. It will turn off (no bonuses from them, doesn't count for prereqs) all traits in any form that isn't currently the active form. So if you pick This Form, all traits in That Form are disabled.

What the Transform Manager will not do is integrate with Alternate Form or Morph or anything like that, you'll still have to set those up yourself. Maybe some day I can get things better integrated, but that's a lot of work.

With parent items in GCA, you can also have them apply their modifiers to all child items. So, if the base cost of the parent is 0, then basically all the modifiers on the parent can be set as general modifiers which apply to all children. (That may help you here, but I'm not great on the rules applications involved.) Note that the modifiers will still apply to the base cost of the parent, so if you made the parent form something with a base cost, that would also be adjusted by the modifiers chosen, so be careful with this option.

Play around with GCA 5 for a bit, try things out, then let's see what we can accomplish. But please bear in mind that I'm not actually great on how all the rules are supposed to work (my GUPRS playing has always been with pretty simple characters and pretty simple traits), and I do *not* have a particularly deep knowledge of the rules. I tend to learn what I need to know to make things work, and then often forget the specifics.

And: You're welcome! I'm really glad you like GCA!
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Last edited by Armin; 01-31-2023 at 10:38 AM.
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