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Old 02-18-2011, 07:26 PM   #11
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

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Originally Posted by jacobmuller View Post
I The victim has 12HP and 12HT:
First shot is Vitals for 30 injury = HT roll or die and then HT-5 for Knockdown
Not disagreeing with anything anyone else has said but I beleive there's a HT roll to remain conscious in here right as you drop below zero. Another one every second.Turn for thsoe who aren't dead too.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:28 PM   #12
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Not disagreeing with anything anyone else has said but I beleive there's a HT roll to remain conscious in here right as you drop below zero. Another one every second.Turn for thsoe who aren't dead too.
You make consciousness checks on your turn unless you Do Nothing. AFAICT you never have to roll them otherwise.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

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Originally Posted by Langy View Post
Note that this isn't the case with SWAT teams taking out hostage takers, who are trained to shoot to the head for an instant kill in order to prevent them from injuring hostages while they die.
Instant incapacitate is the goal, not instant kill (really, as long as the hostage taker doesn't have the option to harm the hostages, whether the hostage taker dies is kind of incidental). The fastest reliable incapacitation without a CNS hit is around ten seconds, which is how long it takes to reduce blood pressure to the brain far enough to force unconsciousness with complete destruction of the heart, severing of carotid and jugular veins, or similar.

Naturally, this is something RPGs mostly don't do; giving someone a lethal wound and having them still beat on you annoys gamers.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
You make consciousness checks on your turn unless you Do Nothing. AFAICT you never have to roll them otherwise.
Hrm, I guess my groups ended up throwing them into the wounding as a time saver. We never got a lot of people choosing Do Nothing after being seriously wounded anyway.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

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If you're going to kill you might as well overkill. However, once someone is no longer a threat, cops call ambulances, not put an extra round in them. At the same time, cops don't normally make called shots to the head, and doing so might get someone labeled a loose cannon by the media (or a superior or IAD investigator with an axe to grind).
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Note that this isn't the case with SWAT teams taking out hostage takers, who are trained to shoot to the head for an instant kill in order to prevent them from injuring hostages while they die.
Can you name an instance where an officer was denigrated as a result of shooting a suspect in the head in a justified case of deadly force? Deadly force is deadly force, so if the circumstances allow it you're cleared to do anything and everything necessary to stop that threat (which would include evacuating his brain box). I'm not asking to be a jerk or anything, it's just that I've never heard of an officer being criticized for good shot placement in a legit shooting.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:50 PM   #16
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Hrm, I guess my groups ended up throwing them into the wounding as a time saver. We never got a lot of people choosing Do Nothing after being seriously wounded anyway.
Well, it does have an odd effect that I never considered: if you're stunned or surprised, you can only Do Nothing, so you cannot fall unconscious until you come unstunned (or make an IQ roll to come out of surprise). I'm not sure what practical effect this has, but it's a bit of a Murphy's rule (I'm so surprised that I can't even fall unconscious due to wounds!)
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Well, it does have an odd effect that I never considered: if you're stunned or surprised, you can only Do Nothing, so you cannot fall unconscious until you come unstunned (or make an IQ roll to come out of surprise). I'm not sure what practical effect this has, but it's a bit of a Murphy's rule (I'm so surprised that I can't even fall unconscious due to wounds!)
You can still fall unconscious due to Major Wounds as normal. And the rolls you don't have to make, you also wouldn't have to make if you took the same maneuvers by choice rather than surprise, and you'd even be allowed better active defense rolls while you're at it. Wouldn't it seem a bit of a Murphy if you passed out as a result of being too surprised to move, when if you weren't surprised you could have done a bit with no such risk?
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:52 AM   #18
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

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Of course, the Mozambique drill isn't really designed for pistols with the lethality of battle rifles.
The Moz has become a standard drill for pretty much every close-combat firearm, including pistols, SMGs, and assault rifles (Tactical Shooting, p. 16). You want the other guy to stop being a threat, and that means you want him to go down. There typically is very little time for a cost/benefit analysis ("Was that third shot really necessary?"). Also see Shoot Till Down (Tactical Shooting, p. 16). The final head shot is almost a necessity nowadays, with so many opponents wearing body armour or being high on drugs -- the Moz is not alternatively called "Drugs & Armour Drill" for nothing.

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Old 02-19-2011, 06:26 AM   #19
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Also, if you use the optional rules from High Tech for bullet injuries, you can't do more than HP damage to the torso. So two shots to the torso won't reliably put someone down fast enough. Popping their brain pan will.
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Old 02-19-2011, 07:28 AM   #20
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Well, it does have an odd effect that I never considered: if you're stunned or surprised, you can only Do Nothing, so you cannot fall unconscious until you come unstunned (or make an IQ roll to come out of surprise). I'm not sure what practical effect this has, but it's a bit of a Murphy's rule (I'm so surprised that I can't even fall unconscious due to wounds!)
I've seen this happen in play: Foe A is active, goes below 0 HP with a major wound and is stunned, passed the first HT check versus unconsciousness on their turn and then Does Nothing, and proceeds to fail the HT checks to recover from stun for several turns.

There are plenty of real life examples of people being incapacitated but conscious while they bleed out. I don't really consider this a Murphy.
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