AP Weapons and Spillover

[offsides]

OK, I think I'm having a senior moment, but who knows. I have this vague recollection that at some point either it was discussed or was actually in the rules that AP weapons did not produce spillover fire. Presumably because they were so small and/or were primarily kinetic rather than explosive, but it's not in the rules now and I'm too busy (supposed to be working from home on a snow day... Ha! :)) to go digging right now. It's one of those things that logically makes sense, but is easy to see why it's not done for simplicity sake as well. So, am I misremembering, or did this actually happen at some point?

Of course, other than stacked INF, it's not likely that AP is ever going to generate effective spillover anyway. At least not outside of the Iron Mountain scenario...

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by offsides

OK, I think I'm having a senior moment, but who knows. I have this vague recollection that at some point either it was discussed or was actually in the rules that AP weapons did not produce spillover fire. Presumably because they were so small and/or were primarily kinetic rather than explosive, but it's not in the rules now and I'm too busy (supposed to be working from home on a snow day... Ha! :)) to go digging right now. It's one of those things that logically makes sense, but is easy to see why it's not done for simplicity sake as well. So, am I misremembering, or did this actually happen at some point?

Of course, other than stacked INF, it's not likely that AP is ever going to generate effective spillover anyway. At least not outside of the Iron Mountain scenario...

RAW says AP guns produce spillover (or more accurately, does not say they don't)

There's nothing in the AP rules (7.05.1) or any of the Spillover rules (7.12.*) that disallows spillover from AP guns. It's just a very limited attack that rarely comes up because the usage is rare where spillover would even apply (no armor, no terrain, etc).

There's some swamp in the D0-land again, while we are at it...

[TheAmishStig]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

RAW says AP guns produce spillover (or more accurately, does not say they don't)

There's nothing in the AP rules (7.05.1) or any of the Spillover rules (7.12.*) that disallows spillover from AP guns. It's just a very limited attack that rarely comes up because the usage is rare where spillover would even apply (no armor, no terrain, etc).

There's some swamp in the D0-land again, while we are at it...

Gut instinct says it was missed thanks to being such an edge case...combined fire only in specific terrain only. Technically LGEVs only spill over when combining fire too...they do, but half attack power, rounded down turns an A1 into an A0.

This is one of those moments where Steve being around occasionally can be really useful...I'd love to pick his brain to see if RAW is intentional, or an 'oops, missed that edge case' situation.

[Cat]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

There's some swamp in the D0-land again, while we are at it...

Tis a tricksy swamp that one. The other week, the question arose of looking at the written rules for AP and whether or not Treads are D0. The talmudic conclusion was that tread units have no D value, including not being D0.

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

RAW says AP guns produce spillover (or more accurately, does not say they don't)

There's nothing in the AP rules (7.05.1) or any of the Spillover rules (7.12.*) that disallows spillover from AP guns. It's just a very limited attack that rarely comes up because the usage is rare where spillover would even apply (no armor, no terrain, etc).

How does terrain come into play? beyond the INF bonus?

Colocated infantry groups vs a lot of AP fire from ogres. Big ogres have an incentive to open with a 2:1, 3:1 (guaranteed reduce of the target), or even 4:1 because each INF group can only be targeted by each ogre's AP guns once. That spillover over can soften up the INF groups not targeted for follow-on with any spare guns.

There's some swamp in the D0-land again, while we are at it...

Is the intersection "Spill-over from AP guns " is "Any attack" ?

Do lasers do spillover? I don't remember.

Originally Posted by Cat

Tis a tricksy swamp that one. The other week, the question arose of looking at the written rules for AP and whether or not Treads are D0. The talmudic conclusion was that tread units have no D value, including not being D0.

That sounds right. They are 1:1 vs all (not AP) attacks, 1:2 in town, and are crossed off proportionally for the attacks. So they are just special.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by dwalend

How does terrain come into play? beyond the INF bonus?

Terrain is not affected by APs, ever. (7.05.1)

Colocated infantry groups vs a lot of AP fire from ogres. Big ogres have an incentive to open with a 2:1, 3:1 (guaranteed reduce of the target), or even 4:1 because each INF group can only be targeted by each ogre's AP guns once. That spillover over can soften up the INF groups not targeted for follow-on with any spare guns.

Yes, that's the very important implication. You don't see this in Ogre, but you could see this in GEV as a better way to deal with INF than overrunning.

Is the intersection "Spill-over from AP guns " is "Any attack" ?

Unknown, but doubtful. I don't consider spillover "an attack;" it's just an unfortunate side-effect of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. That is, however, the crux of the other discussions about D0 that are going on right now.

Do lasers do spillover? I don't remember.

No. Lasers are too precise (12.08)

That sounds right. They are 1:1 vs all (not AP) attacks, 1:2 in town, and are crossed off proportionally for the attacks. So they are just special.

Correct. Treads are treads; the mechanic for dealing with them is completely different.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by TheAmishStig

Technically LGEVs only spill over when combining fire too...they do, but half attack power, rounded down turns an A1 into an A0.

Not an accurate representation of how attacks work; you do not round down.

Half attack power is still half attack power. a .5 attack can still potentially hit a D1 unit at 1-2 odds.

[offsides]

OK, maybe it's a brain fart, but what's "RAW"?

[ColBosch]

Originally Posted by offsides

OK, maybe it's a brain fart, but what's "RAW"?

Rules As Written. It's often handy to go back and see what the rules literally say, as opposed to our interpretations.

[offsides]

Originally Posted by ColBosch

Rules As Written. It's often handy to go back and see what the rules literally say, as opposed to our interpretations.

Thanks, for some reason I could not come up with an expansion for that acronym. Which is a further sign I'm having a senior moment, because if I had a super power I would be Acronym Man (I can come up with acronyms for almost anything, but this one totally escaped me)...

I completely agree that RAW currently says AP creates spillover, but something in my brain was saying that at some point they didn't, or at least it was discussed. Hence my original question...