How many languages?

[Ashtagon]

Based on the points cost of buying up languages individually vs. any "universal fluency" advantages analogous to Cultural Familiarity vs. Cultural Adaptability, is there an "ideal" number of languages that might be involved in a game? This of course assumes that it is a game in which languages may play an important role (just as CF is either meaningful or meaningless depending on whether culture is an important part of the setting as used by the GM).

[Fred Brackin]

There is Language Talent (10) to be considered first. If any character needs Accented fluency spoken and written in 6 languages then that character should take Language Talent. 11 for spoken or written only.

As a gaming element I'd have to say that Language and Culture costs are included as a Simulationist thing. It's a stab at how these things work in the Real World.

However, on a Gamist note they are "participation taxes". You have to pay the cp or you can't take effectively part in any game scenes that take place in that language or at full Skill values for cultures. Doing lots of Languages/Cultures has to be worth it on a cost/benefit ratio or PCs will end up not doing it or regretting spent cp.

Then there's a Narrativist perspective where you can say "My character can speak every language in the world and that makes him cool!". Then you start comparing cost of Language/Culture v. other things that make Characters cool in a PCs eye. Even 10pts of Language Talent of Cultural Adaptability don't jump forward as cool things to be put on a character sheet.

There's also the simple/functional aspect that these things will take up at least 6 lines on a character sheet and you have to ask when it all becomes nothing but book-keeping clutter.

There are reasons this all gets glossed over in many Cinematic genres.

[Ashtagon]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

As a gaming element I'd have to say that Language and Culture costs are included as a Simulationist thing. It's a stab at how these things work in the Real World.

However, on a Gamist note they are "participation taxes". You have to pay the cp or you can't take effectively part in any game scenes that take place in that language or at full Skill values for cultures. Doing lots of Languages/Cultures has to be worth it on a cost/benefit ratio or PCs will end up not doing it or regretting spent cp.

Then there's a Narrativist perspective where you can say "My character can speak every language in the world and that makes him cool!". Then you start comparing cost of Language/Culture v. other things that make Characters cool in a PCs eye. Even 10pts of Language Talent of Cultural Adaptability don't jump forward as cool things to be put on a character sheet.

There's also the simple/functional aspect that these things will take up at least 6 lines on a character sheet and you have to ask when it all becomes nothing but book-keeping clutter.

There are reasons this all gets glossed over in many Cinematic genres.

Cool. I get that for a lot of campaigns, this (along with CF) will be a thing that is entirely glossed over, and that's cool for those campaigns. But for those campaigns where it is intended to be a thing, how many is "fair" in terms of points cost?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Ashtagon

Cool. I get that for a lot of campaigns, this (along with CF) will be a thing that is entirely glossed over, and that's cool for those campaigns. But for those campaigns where it is intended to be a thing, how many is "fair" in terms of points cost?

There is no objective answer. It's all a matter of how many does the GM want and how many would the players be willing to put up with.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Ashtagon

But for those campaigns where it is intended to be a thing, how many is "fair" in terms of points cost?

Basic Language Talent [10] is not immediately advantageous unless there are more than five languages that might be used, on top of your native language. However, acquiring it (see Back to School) while learning your fifth language, anticipating learning more, feels quite natural.

Omnilingual, from Supers [40] is an Unusual Background that ensures that every language that comes up is one that you already know, at Accented by default, or Native if you also have Language Talent. If the campaign covers many worlds, dimensions, etc., Xeno-Omnilingual [80], also from Supers, extends the benefit to everywhere, rather than just Earth. Those need more than ten, or twenty, languages in the campaign in addition to your native language to be advantageous.

Discworld has two advantages based on Modular Abilities, costing [20] and [30], explained here. Those only need more than four, or more than five, languages, to be advantageous.

[sir_pudding]

Don't forget that languages can default to other languages as well.

[evileeyore]

Something I've toyed with doing:

Omnilingual [20/level]
The first level gives Broken understanding of all languages (spoken or read) you are likely to encounter. The second gives Accented and the third gives Native understanding.

Any level may be taken at half price to represent only speaking or reading/writing, however each further level will require the same drawback.


If you have a given level of Omnilingual and want to improve a single (or few) languages individually, sure. Just treat them at the Omnilingual level and buy the next level individually. Likewise if you have a bunch of languages at (frex) Native and want to buy Omnilingual up, it gets a price break based on the languages you already have.

Also there are of course languages not covered under Omnilingual; rare or pidgin or especially difficult languages. These may be purchased as individual Perks.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Don't forget that languages can default to other languages as well.

True. I prefer the rules for that in Speaking in Tongues, by PK, in Pyramid #3/54, Social Engineering. RogerBW's rules in Colorless Green Ideas Sleep Furiously from Pyramid #3/44, Alternate GURPS II are more detailed, but harder to retrofit onto an existing game.

[dcarson]

For a Stargate campaign I let the linguist character take aspected Serendipity so that they could spend points on the fly because they did happen to know a language. So no major up front cost and they had one or two that they either didn't have spare points at the time or didn't think would be worth it that they definitely didn't know. They also had language Talent so one point got them a decent level.

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by Ashtagon

for those campaigns where it is intended to be a thing, how many is "fair" in terms of points cost?

IMHO
4. Per culture. And that doesn't include regional dialects which are really just accents/ local slang.

Scale matters.
SciFi space opera will have universal translators as there are simply too many languages.
Fantasy? How many are cool? Empire, rival kingdom, weird place, magic language, ancient tongue. 4 would do.

cf IRL you're looking at Official legal language of homeland, ancient language (2-5), almost dead local language (for natives only), common foreign languages (3-5). A person should know 1, might know 2, could reasonably explain 3 and still not be a linguistic talent.
Scale for me = Regional: my home Euro-tongue, possibly a Gaelic and/or a Euro-tongue, ie 2-3. cf I worked with a Nigerian who spoke 5 languages but understood 6: my Euro-tongue, 4 villages where he lived in Nigeria and couldn't speak his birthplace language. So, scale for him = Village: his birth village plus 4 neighbor villages (to me that'd be dialect but he said they each spoke a different Language).:/