Unofficial GURPS 4.5e—or, your favorite post-Basic Set rules

[Michael Thayne]

An alternative GURPS 4.5e Magic would be to compile a list of errata for spells in the big Magic book. Something like what Kromm did in Pyramid #3/60, but ideally more comprehensive. Or maybe limiting available spells to the ones in Basic Set plus carefully-selected list of clearly-balanced selections from Magic, plus the "adjustable spells" rule from Thaumatology to make otherwise-impossible effects possible?

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

I've been thinking about trying to come up with a sort of unofficial "GURPS 4.5"—a list of optional rules that clearly work better than the rules that originally appeared in the basic set 12 years ago.

As someone that has very little D&D experience, would it be fair to describe what you are suggesting as "GURPS (Fourth Edition, Revised)"?

I can wrap my head around that pretty easily, and your description sounds a lot like what happened with GURPS (Third Edition) versus GURPS (Third Edition, Revised). Since books were so extensively cross referenced, SJ Games handled the update by keeping most of GURPS Basic Set (Third Edition, Revised) the same, changing only what wouldn't ruin cross referencing and then at the end, included a few updates that could overwrite what came before, with everything else being in Compendium I and Compendium II.

Unsurprisingly most of the suggestions in this thread are a good fit. As much as is possible, rewriting the Advantages, Magic, and Psionic sections to present them as three possible takes on the same thing seems good to me. Not literally the exact same thing, but showing how fantastic powers can be handled almost solely with Advantages (the Powers approach), with mostly skills and a few Advantages (the Magic and cinematic martial arts approach) and a more even blend of Advantages and Skills (...kind of Psionic; more like how they were in 3e). How realistic a goal or how good of an idea this is, I do not know.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

An alternative GURPS 4.5e Magic would be to compile a list of errata for spells in the big Magic book. Something like what Kromm did in Pyramid #3/60, but ideally more comprehensive. Or maybe limiting available spells to the ones in Basic Set plus carefully-selected list of clearly-balanced selections from Magic, plus the "adjustable spells" rule from Thaumatology to make otherwise-impossible effects possible?

Im pretty ok with Basic Magic, especially since its easy to ban or modify spells that are a problem for a specific setting.
I would like the changes from Pyramid and notes on social consequences for those new to the system. Errata and updating some to 4E would also be nice.

Major changes would be trim the list and add in Adjustable spells and other ideas from Thaumatology. A short setting build chapter that discusses options.
And also trim headcount by generalizing spells and placing them in a Basic spells chapter. Seek, Missile, Shape, Create and more could easily be done in main block write-ups with a stat line or short text for variations.
That would save word count that could be used elsewhere.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Otaku

As someone that has very little D&D experience, would it be fair to describe what you are suggesting as "GURPS (Fourth Edition, Revised)"?

I can wrap my head around that pretty easily, and your description sounds a lot like what happened with GURPS (Third Edition) versus GURPS (Third Edition, Revised). Since books were so extensively cross referenced, SJ Games handled the update by keeping most of GURPS Basic Set (Third Edition, Revised) the same, changing only what wouldn't ruin cross referencing and then at the end, included a few updates that could overwrite what came before, with everything else being in Compendium I and Compendium II.

Yeah, I thought the "4.5" notation would have an intuitively obvious meaning, but probably shouldn't have assumed.

[Balor Patch]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

An alternative GURPS 4.5e Magic would be to compile a list of errata for spells in the big Magic book.

The best attempt at spell errata I know of is at technomancer.jargon-file.org/UnofficialGURPSMagicErrata.pdf

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Balor Patch

The best attempt at spell errata I know of is at technomancer.jargon-file.org/UnofficialGURPSMagicErrata.pdf

Hmmm... I'm not sure I like the log-scale DR thing, even that is better than what can be done with normal Advantages. The thing about Basic Set magic is that it's not balanced unless all the spells are essentially *very minor* advantages. If they're even somewhat better than a normal advantage, everything breaks.

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

The thing about Basic Set magic is that it's not balanced unless all the spells are essentially *very minor* advantages. If they're even somewhat better than a normal advantage, everything breaks.

That's like saying the Guns skill isn't balanced because with four points in it you can do far more damage than an equal number of points spread between Innate Attack and the Innate Attack skill.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by simply Nathan

That's like saying the Guns skill isn't balanced because with four points in it you can do far more damage than an equal number of points spread between Innate Attack and the Innate Attack skill.

People have that argument, although the other way around. Then the "Well if IA is too expensive, what about Striking ST!?" argument comes up. Then suddenly your thread balloons 200 posts.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Im pretty ok with Basic Magic, especially since its easy to ban or modify spells that are a problem for a specific setting.
I would like the changes from Pyramid and notes on social consequences for those new to the system. Errata and updating some to 4E would also be nice.
....

I would like sets of spells for genre and non-obvious consequences of them existing in an otherwise realistic setting.
Obviously permanent creation spells wreck economies if common. But a more detailed explanation of how, why, and ways to avoid that would be nice.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by simply Nathan

That's like saying the Guns skill isn't balanced because with four points in it you can do far more damage than an equal number of points spread between Innate Attack and the Innate Attack skill.

Technological superiority is a fact of reality. The age old "joke" about fiction having to make sense while reality doesn't applies here.
We want our magic to be internally consistent.
Also external devices aren't, and shouldn't, in my opinion, be a major factor in advantage or skill pricing.
Should beam weapon skill cost more than bow just because it can cause FAR more damage? Driving TL 8 vs. TL6 because modern cars are so much better?