Gurps 4e Stats of a FN P90

[Kitty_Of_Doom]

Hi you gun-gurus out there.
In one of our contemporary games, one of our players would like to have a FN P90 machine-pistol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90)
(seen it on Stargate and played with it in FarCry).

What would be its Gurps 4e stats?

Thanks!

[Phoenix_Dragon]

First off, it's a submachine gun, not a machine pistol.

Stas would be essentially the same as the 4.6mm PDW, though I might give it higher damage for its higher muzzle energy:

Damage: 4d+2 pi-
Acc: 3
Range: 200/2000
Weight: 5.5/1.1
ROF: 15
Shots: 50+1(3)
ST: 7t
Bulk: -3
Rcl: 2
Cost: Somewhere around a thousand

[Kitty_Of_Doom]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

First off, it's a submachine gun, not a machine pistol.

Okay. So, but where is the exact difference between a "machine pistol" and a "submachine gun"?

[are]

Originally Posted by Kitty_Of_Doom

Okay. So, but where is the exact difference between a "machine pistol" and a "submachine gun"?

Quite correct question. The difference between "machine pistol" and "submachine gun" is in America. In the states, a weapon firing pistol calibers and operated with two hands is called a "sub-machine gun" (a lesser machinegun) while a weapon firing pistol ammunition which can be operated with one hand is called a "machine pistol". The difference is largely one of size and academiae..

AFAIK the british call them all "submachine guns". Please correct me if I am wrong. In German they are all called "maschinenpistole".

Interesting enough, the difference between different automatic fire arms like assault carbines and smgs are disintegrating as new cartridges are developed.

[ed_209a]

Originally Posted by Kitty_Of_Doom

Okay. So, but where is the exact difference between a "machine pistol" and a "submachine gun"?

Good question.

It's mainly a matter of size. The Skorpion, microuzi, Beretta 93r, Intratec Tec-9, and Ingram MAC-10(and family) are usually considered machine pistols.

The H&K MP5k and the mini-Uzi might be MPs if not used with a stock. They ride the line between MPs and SMGs. The Mac-10 might fall here too with the suppressor attached. I hear it makes the weapon a lot easier to control.

A PDW is sometimes just a machine pistol with a stock. Compare the MP5k to the MP5-PDW.

To complicate things, I believe some countries (incl Germany) call _all_ SMGs machinepistols.

In general, if your expected target is more than 20 feet away, and you don't absolutely need to put 5 rounds in it in 1/4 sec, machine pistols probably are not for you. They are known for being very hard to control in burstfire and auto due to their light weight.

[Kitty_Of_Doom]

Originally Posted by ed_209a

To complicate things, I believe some countries (incl Germany) call _all_ SMGs machinepistols.

Right in German we have:

Pistole - Pistol
Maschinenpistole - machine pistol
Gewehr - rifle
Sturmgewehr - assault rifle
Machinengewehr - machine gun

there is no direct equivalent for SMG . At least none I know of. But i am sure Hans might shed some light into this.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

First off, it's a submachine gun, not a machine pistol.

Stas would be essentially the same as the 4.6mm PDW, though I might give it higher damage for its higher muzzle energy:

Damage: 4d+2 pi-
Acc: 3
Range: 200/2000
Weight: 5.5/1.1
ROF: 15
Shots: 50+1(3)
ST: 7t
Bulk: -3
Rcl: 2
Cost: Somewhere around a thousand

Based on muzzle energy and cailber, for a 31 grain 5.7mm round to have 4d+2 damage, it would have to be launched at about 3650fps, which is rather substantially higher than the 2350 it develops out of the P90.

The round develops the energy of a pistol, so it should have pistol-class damage. It's got a bit less KE than the NATO standard 124gr 9mm from a 5" barrel, but is much lower cross section. Something around 2d+2(2) would be a better fit. (and since 2d+2(2) is 18 points of penetration, more than the 5.56x45mm round, it's likely that a "true" armor divisor is less than 1.9, but more than 1.0. No frickni way this round punches through more armor than something with three times its energy, equal cross sectional area, and more mass!)

The bullet is designed to tumble and fragment into at least two bits, and do so very quickly, IIRC, so a pi rating for the round, even the AP one, might be justified.

My impression of the purpose of the weapon is a bit different than other autofire weapons. The low recoil and ergonomics of the weapon system mean that it's pretty good at achieving multiple hits at close range. This is unlike many burst and autofire systems which are more geared to hittnig ONCE at any range.

So lower tissue damage is more acceptable if you're planning to hit the guy a whole bunch.

Anyway, all reports of actual and theoretical performance of this weapon support that it's a pistol-class wound channel with a very high ability to (a) punch through armor with the SS190 round, and (b) hit more than once due to low impulse. The 50-shot magazine don't hurt none, either. ;-)

[tmedwards]

I have slightly different stats culled from Dok's Fancy Firearms Thread, so here are those stats for the P90 and the Five-seveN. Note, as I said, these stats were culled and archived by me, I had nothing to do with their creation. They were posted by Doktor Teufel, with input from various sources, like DouglasCole, Sam Cade, etc. (And I don't mean to slight anyone, Doug and Sam are merely easy to remember)

You'll note that the stat blocks include two damage entries, the first (default) entry is what was presented with the weapons, the second entry is (as noted) what was presented by HANS for the weapons. I archived both since there was some contention.

FN P90 PDW, 5.7x28mm (TL 8)
Damage: 2d+3(2) pi | per HANS: 4d pi-
Acc: 3
Range: 200/2,000
Weight: 6.6/1
RoF: 3 or 15!
Shots: 50(3)
ST: 8†
Bulk: -3
Rcl: 2
Cost: $1,600
LC: 2
Notes: [See Below]

Notes: The civilian version is semi-auto only (RoF 3), costs $100 less (of course, the real deal costs more than $1,600 on the black market anyway), and is LC 3. But who would want that? Also, the civilian ammo should definitely lose its AP capability... or something.

Also available: tracer, sub sonic, standard, blank and dummy ammunition.

FN Five-seveN, 5.7x28mm (TL 8)
Damage: 2d+1(2) pi | per HANS: 3d pi-
Acc: 2
Range: 55/1650
Weight: 1.64/0.28
RoF: 3
Shots: 20(3)
ST: 9
Bulk: -2
Rcl: 2
Cost: $900
LC: 3
Notes: [See Below]

Also available: tracer, sub sonic, standard, blank and dummy ammunition.

[Blood Legend]

I asked about this gun as well and people mostly arrived on these stats in that thread:

TL: 8
Damage: 4d Pi-
Acc: 4
Range: 220/1900
Wt.: 5.6lb/1
RoF: 15
Shots: 50+1(3)
ST: 8
Bulk: -4
Rcl: 2
Cost: $1250

Taking from the previous posts in this thread and a quick internet search, perhaps this would be closer?

TL: 8
Damage: 4d Pi
Acc: 4
Range: 220/1900
Wt.: 5.5lb/1.1
RoF: 15
Shots: 50+1(3)
ST: 7t
Bulk: -3
Rcl: 2
Cost: $1250

[are]

I would go with 2d+2(2) pi-, rcl 1 !