Leech as a Follow-Up on melee attacks.

[Wavefunction]

Hi all,

Feeling a little guilty for posting quite a few threads recently, but I'm going to keep doing so anyway. (Evil laughter)

The title pretty much says it all, I want a method of adding Leech as a Follow-Up on attacks. The concept is that provided the weapon breaks the skin of the victim, and is in some way attached to the user, then the Leech will activate. The problem is that by default you must grapple or pin your opponent to use Leech, basically it's not set up for this approach. The other factor is that normally Leech activates once every second, whilst the character utilising this ability will be more than capable of Rapid Strikes, to attack quite a large number of times per turn, and I'd like Leech to activate every time.

Any thoughts?



(Sneaky bonus question: The above ability is for a tank/berserker character, who thanks to a mystical ritual has a degree of magical power, mostly oriented around self-sacrifice, pain, and blood. I was just wondering if anyone has any ideas for some interesting, thematically-appropriate powers?)

[Nereidalbel]

Imbue 3; Cosmic: No Die Roll Required (+100%), One Skill Only (-80%) PM (-10%) [44]
Vampiric Weapon (Weapon of choice) [1]

If you plan on using 3 or more weapon types, take Vampiric Weapon! instead of specializing by weapon.

[the_matrix_walker]

Someone had a similar question and Kromm answered...

Originally Posted by Kromm

I think you could approximate it fairly well with Leech given Cosmic, +50% to let it ride on any attack, not just a grapple, and a small Accessibility limitation that restricts total HP healed to the damage delivered by the attack. You'll need other modifiers to get the timing, rate of return, etc., right, but those two should give you the necessary effects.

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Imbue 3; Cosmic: No Die Roll Required (+100%), One Skill Only (-80%) PM (-10%) [44]
Vampiric Weapon (Weapon of choice) [1]

If you plan on using 3 or more weapon types, take Vampiric Weapon! instead of specializing by weapon.

Thanks for the response. However I was really looking for Leech for a reason, for a start I don't want healing tied to the damage of the attack, the Leech is intended to be separate. Mainly because the character in question does a ton of damage, and healing tied to damage would be incredibly OP. Plus, I don't like using Skills for things that Advantages should be able to handle. After all, that was what really drew me into GURPS, how versatile the Advantages/Disadvantages + Enhancements/Limitations system is.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Someone had a similar question and Kromm answered...

Thanks, that's very helpful. I assume by 'any attack' it simply means 'an attack that is not a grapple' and you'd need to pay for Follow Up, Universal, +50% separately to use it on any attack. (I know you can't speak for Kromm, I'm just interested in your take on it)

So currently I think I'm looking at is:
Leech 1 (Accelerated Healing, +25%; Accessibility, Must Remain Connected to Victim Through Weapon, -10%; Blood Agent, -40%; Cosmic, Can Use Without Grapple, +50%; Follow Up, Universal, +50%) [51]

The Accessibility Limitation is to prevent using it with a bow and arrow, or other projectile weapon. That should steal 1 HP per attack that draws blood, does that look right? Do you think multiple uses per turn is covered by the Follow Up Enhancement?

[Nereidalbel]

Imbue is a power, with skills simply being the use of that power. And if you're dealing tons of damage, you're likely to take tons of damage. Also, Vampiric Weapon is based on injury caused, meaning other supers with IT:DR heal you less than mere mortals.

If you want to stick to the Leech route, Blood Agent is not allowed on a Follow-Up attack; you need to use Accessibility to restrict it only to attacks that cause injury, and another Accessibility if it can't work on targets that have IT: No Blood. Yes, multiple attacks in a turn should work without a problem, but, lose the "must remain connected through weapon" bit. The Follow-Up part already requires your weapon to make contact in order to do anything.

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Imbue is a power, with skills simply being the use of that power. And if you're dealing tons of damage, you're likely to take tons of damage. Also, Vampiric Weapon is based on injury caused, meaning other supers with IT:DR heal you less than mere mortals.

If you want to stick to the Leech route, Blood Agent is not allowed on a Follow-Up attack; you need to use Accessibility to restrict it only to attacks that cause injury, and another Accessibility if it can't work on targets that have IT: No Blood. Yes, multiple attacks in a turn should work without a problem, but, lose the "must remain connected through weapon" bit. The Follow-Up part already requires your weapon to make contact in order to do anything.

Yes opponents will probably be doing a lot of damage, but frankly my GM doesn't want me to have too much healing, he's worried that it'll make my character too powerful (which I think is legitimate concern). It's also not Supers, it's high powered Fantasy, and most people probably won't be wandering around with IT:DR.

Thanks for the heads up that Blood Agent can't be combined with Follow Up. How would you price Accessibility, Must draw blood, -??%? I was thinking between -20% and -30%.

I believe by default Follow Up, Universal can be used with any weapon, including ranged weapons. I don't want him to be able to shoot a bow and arrow and steal HP through the arrow. But that doesn't rule out ranged attacks, he can throw a harpoon and provided he keeps hold of the tether he can still use Leech.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

Thanks, that's very helpful. I assume by 'any attack' it simply means 'an attack that is not a grapple' and you'd need to pay for Follow Up, Universal, +50% separately to use it on any attack. (I know you can't speak for Kromm, I'm just interested in your take on it)

So currently I think I'm looking at is:
Leech 1 (Accelerated Healing, +25%; Accessibility, Must Remain Connected to Victim Through Weapon, -10%; Blood Agent, -40%; Cosmic, Can Use Without Grapple, +50%; Follow Up, Universal, +50%) [51]

The Accessibility Limitation is to prevent using it with a bow and arrow, or other projectile weapon. That should steal 1 HP per attack that draws blood, does that look right? Do you think multiple uses per turn is covered by the Follow Up Enhancement?

The Kromm quote predates Universal Follow Up, and may in fact have served as partial inspiration.

I would say that using a Cosmic for making it ride on other attacks would not remove the need to make (contiguous) contact, and that you do not need Universal Follow Up.

[Nereidalbel]

I wouldn't sweat the healing too much, if you go with a -10% Pact that you won't up the healing from 1:3 to 1:1. That at least limits you a bit.

As for the Universal Follow-Up, I don't see why a harpoon on a rope wouldn't work. Cutting the rope is likely to be easier than breaking a grapple, after all.

Out of curiosity, what point value are we looking at here, and how are you defining "tons of damage?"

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

As for the Universal Follow-Up, I don't see why a harpoon on a rope wouldn't work. Cutting the rope is likely to be easier than breaking a grapple, after all.

Out of curiosity, what point value are we looking at here, and how are you defining "tons of damage?"

Ah, I was trying to say that a harpoon on a rope would work, but a ranged weapon that has no form of tether wouldn't. Now I believe Follow Up would normally allow you to use it with a ranged weapon that has no form of tether, but I'm coming round to the opinion that without Ranged, Leech would still require some form of connection.

It's a 250 point game, which when you're not impeded by Dungeon Fantasy templates can stretch pretty damn far. As for damage, he's got ST 21, using a swung weapon, with Weapon Master, so that's at least 4d+7, haven't quite decided on the weapon yet, but there almost certainly will be a bonus. His average damage is therefore 21, for an average of 7 HP healed per hit with Vampiric Weapon. That doesn't factor in target's DR, but it's still going to be a hefty amount of healing.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

It's a 250 point game, which when you're not impeded by Dungeon Fantasy templates can stretch pretty damn far. As for damage, he's got ST 21, using a swung weapon, with Weapon Master, so that's at least 4d+7, haven't quite decided on the weapon yet, but there almost certainly will be a bonus. His average damage is therefore 21, for an average of 7 HP healed per hit with Vampiric Weapon. That doesn't factor in target's DR, but it's still going to be a hefty amount of healing.

Remember: If you can hit them for 4d+7 Cut, they can also hit you for 4d+7 Cut. If Innate Attacks are available, you're going to need that healing just to get past the ranged death bolts chunking away at you, and both options still allow targets to make active defenses against the weapon itself.