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Old 01-10-2013, 02:00 AM   #21
Flyndaran
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Default Re: [Powers] Leech and nonsapient victims

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...
[1] general statements like "I'd like to kill someone some day" and "I'm taking Criminology so I can get away with murdering people one day" and "I carry around rope and a knife in my car in case I feel like killing a homeless man one day" are free speech. We have hate-speech laws in Canada, but she's not done anything like that - she's "just" deeply deeply worrying.
One post, and I'll let it drop as way off topic.
Intent to commit a crime is a crime, not just incredibly stupid to ignore. Thoughts are no longer thoughts when you say them out loud.
I have a thought secret that would get me lynched in many places, but I have never said them aloud to anyone but my life mate. I would be stupid to say them and expect no repercussions. The fact she did say hers says she seriously considers them and cannot control her mouth.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:20 AM   #22
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Default Re: [Powers] Leech and nonsapient victims

I think Intent has a somewhat different meaning in a court of law than in daily speech.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:30 AM   #23
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Default Re: [Powers] Leech and nonsapient victims

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I think Intent has a somewhat different meaning in a court of law than in daily speech.
Does it really matter? What do you say to the family of people she eventually kills when it's so damn obvious that she will?
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:37 AM   #24
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Default Re: [Powers] Leech and nonsapient victims

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Does it really matter? What do you say to the family of people she eventually kills when it's so damn obvious that she will?
You say, "We are sorry for your loss. We did everything we could."

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Old 01-10-2013, 04:18 AM   #25
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Default Re: [Powers] Leech and nonsapient victims

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Does it really matter? What do you say to the family of people she eventually kills when it's so damn obvious that she will?
You tell them freedom of speech and thought are worth the loss, and many people have died to protect those freedoms; they're in good company. You ask them if their own lives would be worth living, or if their lost love ones would have thought their lives had been worth living, without these things.

I think this line of thinking is a slippery slope. We could eliminate far more murders and violent crimes if we just had everyone implanted with tracking chips, and ideally developed mind reading tecnologies (we have fMRI as a crude beginning now), and trusted that government would never abuse these things. What would you tell the families of people that get killed when arguing against such Orwellian methods, when those methods would have inarguably prevented the deaths? Several years ago I read about people arguing that since we can profile people with brain scans for antisocial / psychopathic personalities, we should do this and then lock up or at least watch these people... without any evidence of even a thought crime.

In the end, it sucks sometimes, but law enforcement has to wait until a crime is really committed. That said, if our legal system didn't make it so difficult for people to arm and defend themselves (depending on the area you live), people might be able to defend themselves better when such threats do come calling.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:23 AM   #26
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Default Re: [Powers] Leech and nonsapient victims

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Does it really matter? What do you say to the family of people she eventually kills when it's so damn obvious that she will?
It does in a Rechtsstaat.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:53 AM   #27
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Default Re: [Powers] Leech and nonsapient victims

Sorry for the thread drift. I don't believe free speech to be the same thing as declaring intent and gathering the items and skill to commit murder. We can agree to disagree on that.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:42 AM   #28
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Default Re: [Powers] Leech and nonsapient victims

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Sorry for the thread drift. I don't believe free speech to be the same thing as declaring intent and gathering the items and skill to commit murder. We can agree to disagree on that.
"I bought this gun so I can blow away any damn criminal who threatens me" is as much declaring intent and gathering the items and skill to commit murder ("self defence" defence aside aside). It's not a crime, and as long as you're not breaking regional laws for gun ownership and carrying, is perfectly legal.

It's not preparing to commit murder if it's all abstract - it's not "I'm going to kill everyone I can see from the top of the clock tower once I get up there" which is very concrete and specific, even if you have no idea who they are. It's "I'm going to kill someone some day".

Anyways. Thread drift, but my closing note: as gamers, we of all people should be wary of encouraging the police to arrest people for thinking and talking and planning about doing violence to abstract people. Otherwise I'd never get to talk about 99% of my gaming in public, and modern-period action games would be potentially illegal.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:42 AM   #29
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Default Re: [Powers] Leech and nonsapient victims

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In fact, all of Leech is very dubious for its price. For self-healing, regeneration builds with proper limitations are more efficient and flexible. Attribute-reduction at range requires Malediction, and thus is no longer automatic. Damage potential is abysmal. FP stealing is meh.

The only reason I'd want to take Leech is if I had Mechine Leech. Then I'd get my HP from cars and buildings. Probably for some T1000 analogue.
Yeah, Its definitely overpriced. Avoiding the balance question directly (so as not to derail the thread a different direction, what is needed to make Leech competitive with Innate attack, Affliction, Regeneration, and Healing? I'm almost tempted to start with 10 as the base cost...
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:00 PM   #30
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Default Re: [Powers] Leech and nonsapient victims

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Anyways. Thread drift, but my closing note: as gamers, we of all people should be wary of encouraging the police to arrest people for thinking and talking and planning about doing violence to abstract people. Otherwise I'd never get to talk about 99% of my gaming in public, and modern-period action games would be potentially illegal.
Very good point. If I let myself be self-conscious and worry too much about what I said about some of my campaigns, or especially some impomptu game sessions, in public... it's enough to make me shudder what people might think. They could easily think I'm a violent, murdering, raping, thieving, mysoginist, alcoholic schizophrenic with multiple personalities - some of which are female (GM); my players wouldn't be much better off. I only wonder if my doing of voices for characterization, keeping my volume low, prefacing statements with character names spoken just a bit louder (e.g. "John says..." or "Jane does...") and such helps or makes it look worse. The occasional rolling of a d6 I keep in my pocket for "emergencies" either clarifies it's a game, or adds a penchant for gambling to the list of false perceptions people might have. ;-)
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